Should you ever fold a set? - Page 2

Vern · #11 02-28-2005, 07:56 PM

Try this in the future

Hand Converter

wyoak · #12 02-28-2005, 08:06 PM

i tried that before, it's all screwy on this hand. I think it's because I had just sat out a round to concentrate on a SnG and I had posted here to get back in.

DavidC · #13 02-28-2005, 08:10 PM

About folding a set multiway: fuggetaboutit

You've got 1/3 to fill by the river, demolishing any straights / flushes that you might be up against.

Furthermore, someone could be misjudging their hand: with two pair: I've made this mistake once and it cost me probably $600 in an NL hand, heads-up. Yeah, it sucked.

So there's never a question of folding this hand.

What you have to be focused on is figuring out when you can raise and when you should just call.

On the turn you've got 10 outs, less whatever cards people have already paired up. It's one of those situations where if it's three way, and it's capped, and there's already some cash in the pot, you just have to keep calling. If both your opponents had straights / flushes, then your EV in the hand is continuously dropping as you're forced to call more bets and raises from them, but folding is an even greater mistake.

Keep in mind that if they have AA, you've got 10 pure outs against them HU, and if they've got top-set, you're in deep deep trouble.

However, set over set is EXTREMELY rare. I don't know how rare -- google it, there's an article somewhere that I haven't read. To summarize: it's rare.

--Dave.

btspider · #14 02-28-2005, 08:21 PM

two hands. first one is a rare set fold (vs two over sets). second one is flopped set over set over set.

hand 1:
CO was straightforward TAG. i felt pretty confident he had AA given his line.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls, CO raises, Button calls, 2 folds, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls, CO caps, Button calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks, CO bets, Button raises, MP1 calls, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Button calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (16.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks, CO bets, Button calls, MP1 raises, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.

I intended to check-raise again. The LRR waking up made me think JTs/JJ/TT. Not a great range to be against. I wanted overcalls from CO's JJ+ holding.

River: (24.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls, CO raises, Button 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero folds, CO calls.

CO wakes up on the river Ace.. looks like AA. I'd call one more bet, but two with a potential cap.. nah.

Final Pot: 34.75 BB
Main Pot: 34.75 BB, between MP1, CO and Button. > Pot won by CO (34.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
MP1 has Ts Th (three of a kind, tens).
CO has Ac As (three of a kind, aces).
Button has Ad Kc (one pair, aces).
Outcome: CO wins 34.75 BB. 

------------------------------

hand 2:
SB was rockish. i shouldn't have raised the river (he wouldn't hold a straight).

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, MP3 3-bets, SB calls, BB folds, Hero caps, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (14.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, SB raises, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

River: (20.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 29.50 BB
Main Pot: 29.50 BB, between MP3, SB and Hero. > Pot won by SB (29.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
SB has As Ac (full house, aces full of sixes).
Hero has 4c 4s (full house, fours full of sixes).
MP3 has 5c 5s (full house, fives full of sixes).
Outcome: SB wins 29.50 BB.

DavidC · #15 02-28-2005, 08:23 PM

You can ALMOST disregard your opponents when you have a set.

If they're aggressive, you're going to want to milk them for more. If they're passive, pay them less (call a turn raise, rather than three-betting).

Sets are a beautiful thing. Glad you hit your boat this time! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

DavidC · #16 02-28-2005, 08:29 PM

Hand 1:
I'm not sure if you should have three-bet the flop here. It's a pretty massive pot, and you could only force the two-outers to fold.

Edit: I did JUST finish reading that section in SSHE, and you've probably got 100k more hands than I do (at least), so I'll defer to your judgement here, but I am curious about it.

btspider · #17 02-28-2005, 08:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1:
I'm not sure if you should have three-bet the flop here. It's a pretty massive pot, and you could only force the two-outers to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

i probably can't "protect" my hand from a two outer even if I stop-n-go or pull some other fancy move. when you can't protect, bet for value. i wanted to check-raise the turn, but the LRRaiser woke up and I put him on JTs/JJ/TT. I didn't like my chances and went for the overcalls from CO's likely range (JJ+).

DavidC · #18 03-01-2005, 01:50 AM

Cool, thanks for explaining.