oh-no, I have to play post-flop?!?

[curtains]

Are you suggesting that it's correct to fold AJo preflop? Or are you responding in this fashion because my comments are worded poorly?

[DCJ311]

Folding preflop is the worst idea ever. Given the circumstances I think you played the hand fine.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Man you have Ace Jack on the cutoff seat. I understand that sit and go's/limit holdem and multi table tournaments all have completely different strategies, but folding AJo on the cutoff here is just too far off base for my tastes.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I neglected to mention that this is a 10+1 (although some of you have seen enough of my posts that you probably made that assumption).

I went through a similar thought process as the discussion on this board:

First: "AJo -- that's a trap hand early. Fold."

Then, with my mouse hovering over the fold button: "Well, I am in LP, and while it's still fairly early, I could add 10% to my stack with a steal. If I hit, I'm probably in good shape, and if I'm raised, I can always back off."

On the flop, my thinking was "sweet -- TPGK HU. I'm still a little jumpy from the pre-flop CC, so I'll put out a bet large enough to kill the draws, but not so big I can't get away from it if a bigger A comes over the top. And I might even get a call from a weaker A."

I think this thinking was flawed. A9 or AT might see my bet as weak and come over the top anyway. The only hand I'm really afraid of is AQ, since I think I would've been re-raised with just about enything else (although I've seen a lot of people CC raises with AK at 10+1).

The flop cold-call concerned me a lot. While I didn't think this player was tricky enough to trap, it sure looked like it to me.

I considered checking it down on the turn, but I know he's betting if I check to him and I think folding at that point would be criminal, right? The turn was effectively a blank, so I felt like now was the time to get my money in, but I realized that my bet really had no FE and I should've pushed the flop.

Is this line of thinking flawed?

Edit: reworded

[unfrgvn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Man you have Ace Jack on the cutoff seat. I understand that sit and go's/limit holdem and multi table tournaments all have completely different strategies, but folding AJo on the cutoff here is just too far off base for my tastes.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I neglected to mention that this is a 10+1 (although some of you have seen enough of my posts that you probably made that assumption).

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish it was mandatory for everyone to have their buy in, ITM, and ROI as their tag line. I would like to know how much that colors the answers to this hand problem. For myself, I agree with curtains and you, I don't think I'm folding this in this position, and if I am playing it I'm playing it for a raise. BUT, it makes me wonder if that's one of the reasons I stumble every time I try to move to the 20s.

As to the hand, I've played similiar hands in the past at the 10+1 and I think it's about 50/50 if you are ahead or not. I've been called in this spot with A3(one pair!), pocket K's(though you would expect a reraise with big pockets). It wouldn't surprise me to see him flip A 10 for two pair or even a set of aces.

Doug
Buy In: 10+1
ROI: ~25%
ITM: ~45%

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
I wish it was mandatory for everyone to have their buy in, ITM, and ROI as their tag line.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad it's not... I'd be too embarrassed to post...

[adanthar]

I like that raise when you start with 1K chips and/or have 1200 behind a lot more than when you have 675 and plan to 'back off if reraised'. Back off to where, exactly?

On the flop, there are no draws worth mentioning because he didn't coldcall exactly J9 and you're only scared of a gutshot. Either check or go all in.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
I like that raise when you start with 1K chips and/or have 1200 behind a lot more than when you have 675 and plan to 'back off if reraised'. Back off to where, exactly?

[/ QUOTE ]

By "back off,"I meant let it go.

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop, there are no draws worth mentioning because he didn't coldcall exactly J9 and you're only scared of a gutshot. Either check or go all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

So are you saying that you'd be less likely to push with a drawless board? I think I'm a little weak on the when to push vs. when to bet a large fraction of the pot. In this case, I think it's a push due to my stack, but if my stack had been 1500 going into the hand, would this change the flop bet?

FWIW, it was the gutshot, plus a backdoor flush - villain had KdQd, and a flop push probably would've bought me the pot. As it was, the turn "blank" (which wasn't a blank at all) combined with my weak bet was just enough to get a call.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
By "back off,"I meant let it go.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. Let it go to where? You'll have 500 left if you miss and the blinds will probably be at 100 when they come back. This is a high variance play (especially because you also get called more down there) and you want more chips to make it.

[ QUOTE ]
So are you saying that you'd be less likely to push with a drawless board? I think I'm a little weak on the when to push vs. when to bet a large fraction of the pot. In this case, I think it's a push due to my stack, but if my stack had been 1500 going into the hand, would this change the flop bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Either way, you're way ahead or way behind. Gutshots don't inherently scare me enough to even take them into consideration. Instead, I want his chips, and I'm more likely to get them there if I...well, since he called 200 off with a gutshot, that works.

Normally, though, with your stack, I'd check against a LAG and push against a calling station. With more chips, I'd make a standard bet. The idea is to get him to put his chips in with 5 (really 3 because I'm aiming at Ax, but I don't mind KT) or fewer outs.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
Feel free to muck preflop.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

That's incredibly weak.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
(In limit holdem folding AJo when folded to in the cutoff would be tantamount to simply throwing money in the trash.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been primarily a ring game player for the past 5 months, until I decided to spend more time on SnGs the past month. When I saw this hand last night, the first thing I thought of was the higher value I place on a hand like AJ than players who primarily play SnGs. Another hand I know I value a lot more is 99. I imagine the original poster feels the same way, considering he has been playing mostly ring games as well.

So what's going on here? We're the short stack 6 handed. Things aren't desperate yet, but it's getting close. We need to pick up some chips soon. AJ in CO, and it's folded around to us.

First thing we need to do is look at the stack sizes behind us and consider our reads on those players. The two biggest stacks at the table are behind us (bad), but the BB is pretty short stacked as well (good). If it were me, I'd have pokertracker running and would have a good idea on how loose those big stacks have been playing preflop. If they are fairly tight, I think this is an easy raise. If they're playing loose and more likely to call our raise, then we need to be more careful.

With position on the blinds, I still like a raise here. If the button is the main person I'm worried about calling, I'm more inclined to fold and wait for a better spot. But really, it's getting close to the point where we need to make some steals and/or we start pushing repeatedly. Are we likely to have a better chance and a better hand than this one to do that stealing? I'm skeptical... but maybe this is the aggressive ring player in me, and I need to rein myself in more in SnGs.