$60-$120 Hand

Bet.

I think the concern here is KJ, but I doubt you would get a call from the BB with KJo facing an additional two bets, irrispective of their thoughts on your attempt to isolate. KQ with the K of diamonds, maybe? Just a thought. I would guess if you bet, the BB will fold and the loose-agressive might call.

[JohnM]

This looks like a classic Brier check at showdown type of hand with a very ugly board. I can think of no reason to value bet this river. BUT, Jim has posted this hand so will probably have reasons to make a value bet and, again, I will learn something from Mr. Brier.

[Michael J. Sykes]

Clark,

Although Mark should have probably been more aggressive if he held AK, I did not rule this hand out due to the scary board and the respect he might have had for Jim's three-bet. Also, Jim's description of him as an Omaha 8 player and "very solid" (as opposed to tight-aggressive) suggested to me a possible aggression deficiency.

-MJS

[Ryan_21]

I wouldnt be concerned about being checkraised here, I think if someone had a J they'd have bet it themselves on the river instead of risking missing a bet. But this doesnt make it right to go ahead and bet. I cant see you getting called by any worse hands. Id check.

Ryan_21

[Jim Brier]

I checked because of all the potential stuff out there. Mark mucked, the other player had A-T with the Td, and so I won with my A-Q.

In retrospect, I think a check-raise is very unlikely. A guy with a made flush or a full house would have popped me on the turn. A guy with jacks full at the river would almost certainly have bet the river since he would be fearful that the river would not get bet. So I think the worse that can happen is that I get called by a better hand like A-K. But will a worse hand call? I would guess a weaker ace would call with all that money in the pot especially if it included a diamond. I think checking is probably right but betting is not as bad as many would think.

Thanks for the responses.

I think this hand illustrates an important concept:

Both preflop and on the flop, Jim has represented a very strong hand (especially on the flop). Jim has a dubious flush draw, and a decent ace. His ace is worse or tied with any ace the BB may have, especially after the flop J, and the first raiser may have a worse ace, but probably not much worse, and could have an AQ or even AK.

Since Jim has been representing a very strong hand, and is not likely to be bluffing the turn, he should value bet the river less, as his bet will only be called by strong hands. Jim's hand is mediocre and not very strong. The AxTd is about the only possbile worse hand that might call, and I doubt this hand would call, unless I am over-estimating the skill of 80-160 players. Would he call a bet hoping to chop the pot? It just doesn't seem that likely.

[mikelow]

Well, at least I had the right idea about Ax10d. Well, if I ever sit down in that game, I will be on the lookout for you. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

"Although Mark should have probably been more aggressive if he held AK, I did not rule this hand out due to the scary board and the respect he might have had for Jim's three-bet. Also, Jim's description of him as an Omaha 8 player and "very solid" (as opposed to tight-aggressive) suggested to me a possible aggression deficiency."

Mark's no maniac, but he's definitely a world class all-around player. Omaha8 is his best game, but he's hardly a passive, tight-weak hold'em player.