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#11
02-14-2005, 03:23 AM
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Re: I raise preflop and hit top set. We each have 200 bb. He leads out...
raise to 300. pot commits on the turn, so you can get it all in if you get a turn card you like. plus there are so many turn cards you're not going to like, any T, J, spade, so might as well price him for a draw. if he reraises, it may be time to go into the tank, but you say he's an action player so i would probably call even then, since you're only 1.8-1 against at that point.
going to the felt against an action player as you describe him with top set. 
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#12
02-14-2005, 09:03 AM
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results
Thanks for the responses. I'm not used to playing with so many bb behind, so I was wondering if I misplayed...
Anyway, I decided that he had a hand he liked a lot, and that there were many cards that I didn't want to see on the turn (spade, ten, nine), so I pushed. I was multitabling and wasn't considering how much I had behind when I made the move. He called with JT, I didn't improve, he took it down. I think the raise to $200-300 would've been better. All-in lets him (perhaps) get away from kings.
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#13
02-14-2005, 10:06 AM
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Re: I raise preflop and hit top set. We each have 200 bb. He leads out
If his opponent has 10/J, even spades, he's still almost even money to go. (I point out the spades only because it takes away the Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] as an out, although if you're playing where there's a bad beat pot, you're playing with yourself under the table, but that's another story altogether)
The right move is to milk the money in because in all likelihood he's way out in front. I like a raise of 150 or 200 here. If he's got any piece of this he'll pot commit himself to it. Hope it worked out for you. Ez
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#16
02-14-2005, 12:02 PM
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Re: results
You're right, I'm wrong. Haven't slept yet and the mental calculations got all messed up. I think I multiplied by 1/4 pi-r-squared and ended up with a quarter of the area of a circle or something... Too many fractals and derivatives make loci go something something something......
In any case I think my other post on this was a little more lucid. Thanks for the b-smack!
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#17
02-14-2005, 12:21 PM
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Re: results
[ QUOTE ]
"About even money"? Hero has a 35% chance of winning. He makes a $220+ mistake with his flop action if his opponent holds JT. [/ QUOTE ] Although this is of course true, the key word here is IF. Anyone who can put such an aggressive player on the nuts headsup is a liar. The proper play here is indeed to push because since he is aggressive and if you only pot raise, he might well push with any flush draw, a worse set, a pair of aces or kings played slow or even QT, and then what are you going to do? Pushing avoids making a bad decision to fold and still has outs if indeed he does have the nuts. He just got unlucky (not outplayed). Against an extremely tight player, the pot size raise would possibly allow you to get away from top set, but considering that such players would easily put you on AA/KK, they would reraise allin with a worse set or a flush + gutshot draw to try to get you off your hand, so in a pot that was headsup on the flop and with this dangerous board I always push. Only 3+ players seeing the flop could make me think of folding, and probably not even then.
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#18
02-14-2005, 01:46 PM
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Re: results
Yeh, I like the push, given the dangerous board. If you bet pot and a straight or flush card hits, you may have a difficult decision on the turn. If you bet pot and your opponent pushes. you have to call given the pot odds, your chances of beating a straight, and the chance you are ahead with top set.
A pot-sized bet may extract more if you are ahead, but the push could be called by a set, two pair, a very strong draw, or an overpair.
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#19
02-14-2005, 01:53 PM
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Re: results
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Only 3+ players seeing the flop could make me think of folding, and probably not even then. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. Folding top set is against my religion.
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#20
02-14-2005, 03:44 PM
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Re: results
[ QUOTE ]
since he is aggressive and if you only pot raise, he might well push with any flush draw, a worse set, a pair of aces or kings played slow or even QT [/ QUOTE ] You say this like it's a bad thing. If you think he'll reraise with a worse hand, that's a great reason to make a pot sized raise. Pushing lets these hands get away. Also, if you always overbet with your strong hands, it becomes very expensive to bluff or semibluff. [ QUOTE ] Pushing avoids making a bad decision to fold [/ QUOTE ] Obviously you call a push from him because you have odds then even if he shows you JT.
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