Where do you draw the ethical line?

[Randy_Refeld]

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Would you try and bet everyone out of the pot because you know that even if you get called you can get your money back

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In this case if you bet when you know the deck is fouled you DO NOT get your money back. The other players get their money back and they get to chop up what you put in the pot for this very reason.

Randy Refeld

[Shoe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would you try and bet everyone out of the pot because you know that even if you get called you can get your money back

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In this case if you bet when you know the deck is fouled you DO NOT get your money back. The other players get their money back and they get to chop up what you put in the pot for this very reason.

Randy Refeld

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Wrong... this would be punishing the people who bet thinking that they really have the best hand, and don't realize that the deck is foul. After all the are in a cardroom where the expect a fair game.

I believe that the rules of poker (in a recent article in cardplayer by jan fischer i think), states that if it becomes known that the deck is foul, all money that is bet gets returned to the players, i.e., everyone gets back what they put in.

[Kaz The Original]

Wrong.

Many casinos have the rule that if someone who KNOWS the deck is fouled, their hand is dead.

Of course, proving that someone KNOWS the deck is fouled is difficult.

[M2d]

iirc, Rick Nebiolo once posted that you can claim that you didn't know that there were two of the same card in the deck, but it won't hold any water. the fact that it's in your hand essentially proves that you knew it. Then you forfeit any rights to the money you put in. The hand should have stopped as soon as the second card came up.

[Randy_Refeld]

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Wrong... this would be punishing the people who bet thinking that they really have the best hand, and don't realize that the deck is foul.

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If you know the deck is foul you are not getting your money back. If yo don't think the floor can tell whether or you knew the deck was foul you have never played in a room with a good floor staff. Also the poster that said proving they knew the deck was foul would be hard; the casino doesn't have to prove anything, the supervisor gets to make a determination.

Randy Refeld

[37offsuit]

Just because you have the As in your hand doesn't mean you're going to win. Suppose one of your opponents has a 3rd As as well as a second Ah? Now you're just looking at a split pot.

On a side note, for those who voted they would cheat, I hope you enjoy your karmic reciprication of getting sat between two coluders, who just happen to be trapped between two more coluders, and that the rest of the players at your table have an arrangement with the bottom of the deck dealing dealer.

[tolbiny]

realize that once you know there is an extra A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the deck you are essentially cheating every hand that is delt with that deck. And if you ask the dealer for a deck change they will still take the bad deck to a new table where it is likely to cause some problems.
I consider anyone who doesn't give at least one fair warning to their neighbor who is flashing their cards a cheater as well.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Let me just quote two rules from Robert's rules of poker for ya...

4. If two cards of the same rank and suit are found, all action is void, and all chips in the pot are returned to the players who wagered them (subject to next rule).

5. A player who knows the deck is defective has an obligation to point this out. If such a player instead tries to win a pot by taking aggressive action (trying for a freeroll), the player may lose the right to a refund , and the chips may be required to stay in the pot for the next deal.

It's very stupid to try for the freeroll here. For one thing, now you are playing with a fouled deck, unless of course you bring it up, which of course might tip off that you knew about it, which of course might lead to "unpleasantness" at the table. Let's not even dwell on how unethical it is, which is of course VERY.

I see as of my voting in your poll, there are already 29 people who voted very stupidly.

al

[swede123]

The object of Poker is to take the other guys' money, WITHIN THE PARAMETERS OF THE GAME. Clearly a fouled deck isn't kosher, and anyone knowingly taking advantage is a cheat and a prick. Just my five cents, but I have to say I'm surprised and a little disappointed so many 2+2ers are this unscrupulous (sp).

Cheers,

Swede

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

Apparently, you haven't read about Bogglegate. Maybe we can get El Diablo (and Daryn soon after) in here to give some perspective on this.