Ginourmous pot

[gusser]

It seems everyone has a huge problem with the cold call preflop. SSH chart recommendations include pocket pairs from EP with a raise in front.
On pg 84
"Many people may be surprised to see that we recommend playing small pocket pairs so often, particularly from early position and against a raise."

He then describes ideal game conditions being loose and aggro both of which apply. Am i missing something here?



gus


--.....oh showdown AA,KT,AK and MHIG

[Harv72b]

The first preflop call is not terrible, given the table conditions that you described. But when it's 3-bet and capped, you have to face the very strong probability that there is at least one, probably 2 better pocket pair out there. So I'd say that the first call was borderline under the circumstances, but the second one was not good at all.

The flop call was by far the worst of the hand, though--you don't have nearly the pot odds to call, and there's about a 0% possibility of you having the best hand.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
The first preflop call is not terrible, given the table conditions that you described. But when it's 3-bet and capped, you have to face the very strong probability that there is at least one, probably 2 better pocket pair out there. So I'd say that the first call was borderline under the circumstances, but the second one was not good at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

The second preflop call is unquestionably and overwhelmingly correct.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

personally i think hero played the hand perfectly preflop.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
So I'd say that the first call was borderline under the circumstances, but the second one was not good at all.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it's more like the other way around, in that the first call was terrible, and the second call was fine.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
The second preflop call is unquestionably and overwhelmingly correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

I realize his pot odds are there, but he's certainly behind at this point, flopping a set is never a lock that he's improved to the best hand, and he's in between a preflop 3-bettor and capper. This is a ready-made situation for being trapped with a very good 2nd (or 3rd) best hand.

Tack on all the times Hero makes his set but loses to a flush or straight, and I just don't think this is a +EV situation. Someone else can run it through the paces, but I have to think that Hero's equity flat out sucks here.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

given the table description the first call wasn't *terrible*. though even sugggesting folding the deuces the second time around is terrible.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

this is just flat out wrong.

if you knew for a fact that both of the preflop aggressors had AA and KK, folding would be terrible, because they will certainly pay you off if the flop came all rags with a seemingly harmless duece. you'd way make up the bets you need to make the preflop call easily +EV.

[Harv72b]

But there are also 3 other players coming along for the ride, which means that even all rainbow rags is not necessarily a safe board.

I don't know, I'll bow to y'alls vast advantage in experience since it looks like most of you disagree with me, but I'm just saying what my gut is telling me. I don't have a link or program or whatever you need to run hand comparisons here, but I still think that given the number of opponents and two players showing lots of aggression preflop, Hero's EV would look pretty poor vs. a range of probable hands.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
But there are also 3 other players coming along for the ride, which means that even all rainbow rags is not necessarily a safe board...but I'm just saying what my gut is telling me.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
...but I still think that given the number of opponents and two players showing lots of aggression preflop, Hero's EV would look pretty poor vs. a range of probable hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think about what your saying, which is that you don't like your hand because you're likely up against an overpair (quite possibly true), but you're also saying that you don't like making sets on raggedy flops, ostensibly due to the possibility that someone could make a str8 or flush against you (which likely wouldn't be from one of the preflop raisers). The fact is that when you make a set, especially against others who like their hands from the get-go, you are going to win a lot of money in the long-run, even accounting for the times that you do hit your set and lose.

If you are this afraid of playing this type of hand then I wonder if you are playing in a limit over your comfort level?