Slow Rolling

[legend42]

[ QUOTE ]
It's fairly absurd to say intentions don't matter when we're talking about slow rolling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that this case isn't as offensive as a deliberate slow roll, but to the "victim" it's all the same. He called, the bettor then asked him to show his hand first, and then turns over a full house. That's a slow roll.

As far as his sixes full possibly not being good, that's pretty absurd. You don't think any naked 8 would have tapped the short stack for his last 300 in that pot?

What bugs me about the OP's post is that he first says he didn't mean to do it (which I believe), but then proceeds to ask why people are so bothered by slowrolling anyway? Which leads me to believe he didn't understand what was wrong about it, which makes a sincere apology hard to deliver, which is probably what the rest of the table picked up on.

[PokerForMath]

Friends, Felix' post was the single most emotional post I have read on this forum. I think if I read it correctly, he somehow managed to compare slow rolling and not admitting it to running over someone's pet and then blaming it on them (I assume the pet is dead). Felix then proceeds to conclude that I am a terrible person who someohow manages to tick everyone off in my life (I live alone in a small studio, etc, etc). Why do I need a shrink when I have Felix?

I like Mr. Kovner's analysis myself, I was not being a jerk on purpose and since what's offensive is the jerky behavior I think a simple "by the way, that was rude" would have sufficed. But like I said I want to have a good time at the poker table and the last thing I want to do is annoy my opponents, so I won't be slow rolling anymore.

Or maybe not because the reason I didn't quite understand what all the fuss was about is because I am simply not bothered by that sort of thing and am relative to other players much less emotional at the table. In fact, I think it's weak that that guy let himself get so worked up over this little incident and then proceeded to play terribly. I think it's even weaker that the other guy who was not even involved in the hand got emotional. Can you picture Doyle Brunson or Chip Reese screaming and cursing at me if I slow rolled one of them? Not a chance.

In fact, Felix, I would not be surprised if you are prone to massive bouts of tilt that follow these sort of unbearable insults that I would guess you regularly endure.

Honestly, to all of you who got *angry* because I didn't know how rude slow playing is and didn't immediately confess my sins, don't you think you would play a little better if you learned to react a little bit better? Be honest in your replies and explain to me how you can get so bent out of shape and yet not be prone to tilt.

I have taken some horrendous beats in my life, and some players have been pretty rude about it when I come to think about it, but I have learned not to showed my annoyance and have learned to keep my emotions in check. As a consequence, I don't go on tilt and I don't bluff off half my stack, etc. etc.

[Felix_Nietsche]

You and I obviously have different values about poker and the people with play with.

I play full time and I believe in maintaining good relationships with the people I play poker with (screw everyone else [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ). Doing so has gotten me invited to some very nice private games (there are no casinos in the state I live in).... Slow rolling is poor poker etiquette whether you did it intentially or not....

No where in your response have you expressed *ANY* empathy towards the other player. Your entire focus has been on YOURSELF, not the player you disrespected... If fact, you conceded that you ticked-off the ENTIRE table in just one hand. Not too many poker players can do that....

Maybe in a state with casinos you can tick people off and not have to worry about finding a good game. I do not have that luxery. I have ticked-off plenty of people in my life. If I was at fault then I make a SINCERE apologize. If they accept my apology then great. If they don't, I move on feeling completely confident I played that hand the best I could...

Anyway, congrats for having an A-Plus steam control. That definately helps in winning in poker. For me, I found it also helps maintaining good relationships with the other players. People don't mind losing money to people they like but the HATE losing money to people they don't like. And they play MUCH TOUGHER against players they don't like and that has a negative EV (this assumes you get invited back)...

Do the right thing and apologize to that player, doing so has a positive EV... And I'm not just talking money...

[PokerForMath]

My "values" for playing poker are that I enjoy the game and like to play. I completely agree that ticking people off and getting kicked out of games is a big negative EV play. In fact, I backed down fairly quickly when once I realized how emotional everyone had gotten over the situation because I felt I was on the verge of being asked to leave. And who knows, maybe the price I pay will be not to be invited back. That would be unfortunate.y And frankly what kind of empathy should I feel for the player I slow rolled for all of one second (one second! and then I turned over my cards!) He lost a pot? I was glad he lost the pot? For one second he suffered the indignity of my slow role? Sorry, but give me a break. He can think I am rude all he wants, but I think he was rude and childish junping all over me.

The way I see this is that some poker games are ultimately as rigid and fragile as polite society. Go to a dinner party and use your salad fork for your steak don't you dare get upset when they point it out. I get it. But, as Kovner points out, if it's an honest mistake your real sin is not the mistake but arguing about it.

So, I will conclude this post by *admitting* that I made a huge mistake, as many have pointed out, in getting defensive about my mistake. What I should have done, what I wish I had done, was simply say "totally sorry, that was obnoxious" and have been done by it.

[knifeandfork]

"People don't mind losing money to people they like but the HATE losing money to people they don't like. And they play MUCH TOUGHER against players they don't like and that has a negative EV (this assumes you get invited back)..."

hmmmmm i hate slowrolling and i try to flip up my hand asap no mater how embarrassed i am, im not perfect i have slowrolled some folks in my day. im also a bit of a dick when it comes to asking to show in correct order show both cards etc. some of the less savory individuals will key in on this and since i am far from A+ in steam control "use" it against me. this thread has several points id like to emphasize.
1.it suks to get slowrolled in a big pot, it wastes everyones time and pisses people off.
2.it suks worse to leave broker than you should have because you went a steamin
3. it suks to be uninvited to a game
4. people that dont know they're slowrolling should get a free pass, and be informed as politely as possible
5. a wise man once told me dont be a nit
6. its great to have the image of the nice guy at the table, the one who is keeping it friendly for everyone ( im sure this is where felix is coming from as i know my stae has no casino's either. D- to VA for that one.
7. to paraphrase 'its better to be quiet and be thought a jerk/idiot than to speak up and prove it'
8. "dont tap on the aquarium" making others at the table feel stupid while looking like a jerk -ev for sure

this reply probably equates to a bump but i like the thread, and it might keep me from tilting some time.
jason

[Usagi_yo]

I've seen some pretty viscious slow rolls, this description hardly counts.

People slow roll to anger the other person, put them on tilt etc .... By not turning your cards over immediatly you somehow give that false sense of hope that they won, only to snatch it away a moment later.

After years of playing you largely become immune to slow rolls -- knowing that you either have to see the other two cards face up, or in the muck for you to get the pot anyway.

[Felix_Nietsche]

I think you'll agree that there are two sides to every story.
We have heard *ONE* side of the story and not the other guys side. And the poster never denied that he slow rolled the guy. Only that he did not mean to slow roll the guy.
I suspect the story we heard is rather one-sided. Why?

Consider this question: Why did the entire table get so ticked off at him?

Two possibilities:
1. All the people at his table were unreasonable people.
2. This guy slow rolled the other guy...
Tell me, which is the more likely scenario?.....

It takes a special talent to TICK-OFF an entire table just on one hand.....
Based on the information he provided (and did not provide) I can say with confidence, he SLOW ROLLED the guy....

[TomCollins]

Best slowroll ever. Big time jerk at the table makes a straight on a board of something like AKJ66. He shows QT and announces "straight!". Guy to my left says "I just have two pair." Jerk gets ready to scoop the pot. Guy next to me flips his cards "the red sixes and the black sixes" and flips over his quads. Beautiful.

[tbach24]

Only time I've ever slowrolled was in an online tourney on PS. I flopped a set and rivered quads and on the river this guy pushed his stack in. I used my entire time bank and then called. I kept saying in the chat "Damn, I think you're bluffing, I just don't know."

[elnino12]

"Only time I've ever slowrolled was in an online tourney on PS. I flopped a set and rivered quads and on the river this guy pushed his stack in. I used my entire time bank and then called. I kept saying in the chat "Damn, I think you're bluffing, I just don't know."

LOL you ass [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]