Was my play completely obvious to this opponent? - Page 2

Dubra · #11 02-08-2005, 12:09 PM

Ireally dont like this river bet. I think you are only getting him to fold a missed flush, and i dont think he has that after the minraise and smoothcall on the turn. Look at it from his perspective, 44 in the pot, plus your $18 bet (whats left of his stack), puts 62 in there, and so hes getting about 3.5:1 on his call. I think he calls this bet a significant portion of the time.

amoeba · #12 02-08-2005, 12:11 PM

I need a raise and a hand that can beat top pair without many outdraws should it hit the flop.A8 simply doesn't give me that.

Now, A8 can be limped if you really feel your table is weak preflop but loose postflop.

Example, lots of people in EP limping in AQ, AJ and the like but unwilling to let them go if an ace flops.

This situation is pretty rare though.

etgryphon · #13 02-08-2005, 12:18 PM

I'm actually being a bit facetious, but with a purpose.

I hate playing Axo and never do it, but I'm kinda waffling on hands like A10/A9/A8 in situations like this. I'm definately not talking about calling with any two here. I'm thinking about offsuited hands like KJ/QJ/JT and the Ax mentioned above. I feel a lot better calling with these cards suited but offsuited I don't know. I just want to make sure my thinking is correct.

-Gryph

amoeba · #14 02-08-2005, 12:26 PM

well, I think I'm an example of being really really tight in the SB. my vpip in the SB is about 23 or 24.

when I do limp in the SB, I want a hand that can win a big pot or if I flop top pair I feel confident betting out the flop. I typically fold TJo, QJo in the sb if there are less than 4 to the flop.

I call here with A8s.

The reason I like AXs is not because I can get the nut flush but because I have an additional A out should I flop the draw.

swolfe · #15 02-08-2005, 12:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So you're saying that you would need a raise in there somewhere PF to indicate to you that someone is willing to go to the felt to make this a profitable move.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, but a raise also likely indicates that my A8 is dominated and i need to hit one of my 3 outs for an ace pair (which is still shaky) or 2 of 6 outs for two pair or 2 of 3 outs for trip 8's. there's no way A8os is worth playing in a limped pot getting 9:1 and it's definitely not worth playing for against a raise. i'd only call with A8 from the SB if it's sooted.

jbright · #16 02-08-2005, 01:19 PM

folding to limps w/ A8o in the sb seems excessively tight to me. It's a very easy hand to dump if the flop doesn't hit two pair or better, and the one time you flop 88x against someone holding a smaller 8 will pay off hundreds of times you complete then check/fold the flop.

plus flopping two pair with this is often very profitable against LAG limpers holding AJ or AT.

obviously you have to be very careful b/c you're OOP, but if you know how to get away from a hand I think playing A8 from sb is +EV

salloch · #17 02-08-2005, 01:32 PM

I agree with the comments that this is a fold pre-flop.

FYI, villian turned over 99. I was really expecting to see a stronger hand here, so I thought there was something about my line that screamed bluff.

I guess the lesson is to tighten up in the SB and avoid this type of situation altogether.

MonkeeMan · #18 02-08-2005, 02:23 PM

I agree with jbright that [ QUOTE ]
folding to limps w/ A8o in the sb seems excessively tight to me.

[/ QUOTE ] when getting 9:1.

But, you did call and made a nice flop bet with TPTK. Your big mistake is ignoring the fact that MP2 raised your flop bet. After that happens you have to consider the possibility that your TPTK is no good. Your turn bet is way too high given this info. Perhaps an $8 bet to deny drawing odds is in order, or a check/call or check/fold. After he called your pot sized turn bet you must either shut down or try a small blocking bet.

swolfe · #19 02-08-2005, 02:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
folding to limps w/ A8o in the sb seems excessively tight to me. It's a very easy hand to dump if the flop doesn't hit two pair or better, and the one time you flop 88x against someone holding a smaller 8 will pay off hundreds of times you complete then check/fold the flop.

plus flopping two pair with this is often very profitable against LAG limpers holding AJ or AT.

obviously you have to be very careful b/c you're OOP, but if you know how to get away from a hand I think playing A8 from sb is +EV

[/ QUOTE ]

using that logic you should complete with anything. hell, limp with anything after a couple limpers...the times you flop a boat will pay off hugely more than all the blinds you called.

really, you're not going to flop 88X often enough...and not going to get paid enough when you do...to cover all the times you complete and miss. or complete and lose two pair to something. or complete and hit your 88X, but lose your stack to XX.

jbright....jeremy?

djhoneybear · #20 02-08-2005, 03:02 PM

I think what people are forgetting to mention is that players at this level will go too far with their hands. Your turn bet pot committed this guy (in his mind). Your bet on the flop made him believe you got a a piece of the flop - this is all he needed to stay with his hand. Stay at the table with this guy - he's bound to pay you off. Also - your opponent's actions should make you feel he has a made hand. You seem to put him on a hand after the flop and don't reconsider your thinking after each round of betting. Get in the habit of putting him on a range of hands and then narrowing it down.