Calling pushes in the end game

[AtticusFinch]

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First of all, Atticus, welcome to the board. I can tell that you're going to be a good one to have around.

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Thanks!

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Secondly, I completely understand your argument for folding equity.

I just think that 3-handed you are going to have to call an all-in at some point and I think that 55 is just as good a point as any. I disagree with you here, I think that there are only 9 pushing hands that you are an underdog against, and the range of pushing hands here is much, much, bigger than 9.

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Sure, with 55 that's true. I was talking about KT specifically. I don't think it's so bad to call with 55.

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As far as Hand 2, even if you lose you still have a 1200 chip lead which still preserves that valuable folding equity. You can make those chips back very easily.

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That argument also applies to calling with 7-2o. It's certainly a valid consideration that you have him covered, but in this case you don't have him covered by enough of a margin to call with a spurious holding IMO. You're getting less than 2/1, and you're going to be a dog against most pushing hands. I'd say wait for your own chance to push.

[Awesemo]

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As far as Hand 2, even if you lose you still have a 1200 chip lead which still preserves that valuable folding equity. You can make those chips back very easily.

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This does not explain why calling would ever have a positive expectation. You are clearly a dog to the appropriate range of hands, and the more chips you have the less money an individual chip is worth.

[Scuba Chuck]

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Hand 1 is a fold, but Hand 2 is a call against a good, aggressive SB. SB should be pushing a pretty large range of hands here. KT will easily win you chips on average here. You also get a chance to eliminate someone immediately, whereas if you lose you are not even close to crippled. There is also some advertising value here - people will think you will call pushes with KT, even though if you lose you probably won't do it again in the new situation.

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I can see your line. I don't know if the call itself is +$EV, but I can definately see how your second point is. How blind of me not to notice that. Thanks.

[SuitedSixes]

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That argument also applies to calling with 7-2o. It's certainly a valid consideration that you have him covered, but in this case you don't have him covered by enough of a margin to call with a spurious holding IMO. I'd say wait for your own chance to push.


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Being BB had some bearing on my call here, but I wouldn't quite go with any two at this point as you're not to the magic 2:1. And I don't think that 72o is the worst hand to call with either heads-up.

[AtticusFinch]

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There is also some advertising value here - people will think you will call pushes with KT, even though if you lose you probably won't do it again in the new situation.

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But is this really a good thing? I'd rather have my opponents err in favor of pushing LESS in the endgame, not more.

[Scuba Chuck]

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There is also some advertising value here - people will think you will call pushes with KT, even though if you lose you probably won't do it again in the new situation.


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But is this really a good thing? I'd rather have my opponents err in favor of pushing LESS in the endgame, not more.

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I think ChrisV is actually "advertising" that this is the result of the call with KT. That SB will be worried about pushing any old hand against you, as your image is perceived as one who might call.

[ChrisV]

Why are you clearly a dog to the appropriate range of hands?

If I'm SB here, I guarantee you you aren't a dog to the range of hands I would be pushing in this spot.

If I give SB a pretty tight range, let's say:

Any pair
Any ace
Any king
Q8s-QJs, Q9o-QJo
JTs, J9s, JTo

KT wins a shade under 50% here (49.137%). With the blinds in the pot it's easily right to call. I think you're nuts if you're any tighter than that in SB. I'm quite a bit looser, so KT is a winner versus me.

[SuitedSixes]

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As far as Hand 2, even if you lose you still have a 1200 chip lead which still preserves that valuable folding equity. You can make those chips back very easily.

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This does not explain why calling would ever have a positive expectation. You are clearly a dog to the appropriate range of hands, and the more chips you have the less money an individual chip is worth.

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You bring up good points, I just think we have different ranges of hands. For me, KT is in the Top 37. I call because it doesn't always have a negative expectation. If I knew the raiser had any PP lower than TT, any A other than AK, and AT I call . . . so what's that 7 hands I'm not willing to call against? I think you just have a tighter range of calling hands with a big stack that will still be a big stack after a loss than I do. I don't call if I won't still be chip leader, and I don't call if I'm not in the BB.

[AtticusFinch]

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I think ChrisV is actually "advertising" that this is the result of the call with KT. That SB will be worried about pushing any old hand against you, as your image is perceived as one who might call.

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Ahh, great point! Upon further reflection, I think you're probably right.

As an aside, I've always loved the reaction I get when I make the old "call a 2/1 push for < 1/3 of your stack with any two" move.

[SuitedSixes]

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I think ChrisV is actually "advertising" that this is the result of the call with KT. That SB will be worried about pushing any old hand against you, as your image is perceived as one who might call.

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Ahh, great point! Upon further reflection, I think you're probably right.

As an aside, I've always loved the reaction I get when I make the old "call a 2/1 push for < 1/3 of your stack with any two" move.

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This kind of image nets you a bunch of free chips when you're in the BB.