Call allin with pocket tens? - Page 2

Amerretto · #11 02-03-2005, 08:12 AM

I would fold and let him win this time, I would have said this was a coin flip at best, one which you don't need to risk at the moment.

TGoldman · #12 02-03-2005, 03:16 PM

This is an easy fold IMO. There's a time to call and gamble a bit but this is definitely NOT what you want to be doing at this point. Right now you're tied for the chip lead. You already have a lot of power, why would you want to throw that away on a likely 55/45 gamble and risk losing the whole tournament at this point? If you call and lose, you'll be left wondering what the heck just happened. Don't put yourself in that situation.

Scuba Chuck · #13 02-03-2005, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think this IS the imprtant question. If you think your pretty far ahead of his push range here then I call, but im not calling if I know its a race. You have a lot of FE left still and can probably make the money without showing down a hand ...

[/ QUOTE ]

EZ. Fold.

He is doing you a favor. He is applying pressure on the small stacks, and risking a call.

Laughingboy · #14 02-03-2005, 09:54 PM

Thanks for the input, guys. From what I've read, I think those in favor of folding have the better of it, but calling is not entirely unreasonable.

silversurfer · #15 02-03-2005, 11:41 PM

I can say with absolute certainty, having lost big leads in 11's more times than I care to count(by over aggressively pushing small edges), that it is not worth it.

You can be aggressive later when the blinds go up, but only if you are still in the tournament (how Zen of me). Patience, grasshopper.

goalltheway · #16 02-04-2005, 08:25 AM

This is one of my first posts, so stick with me....

seems like there has been no thought given to the NUMBER of times it WON'T be 55-45 or so. Especially at the lower limits, this seems to usually indicate a PP lower that your 10's will dominate.

you almost certainly can rule out AA or KK (QQ?) with this strong of a move, which leaves you (very rough guess):

1) VERY BEHIND 5-10 percent of the time- JJ or QQ afraid that overs will come (once again, this is very limit-specific)
2) SLIGHTLY AHEAD 50-60 percent of the time- so they pushed with KJ. the ramifications of winnin and losing this have already been discussed
3)VERY AHEAD 30-40 percent of the time- especially in the lower levels, seeing a 99 or 88 can be scary- of course overs will come. Blind stealing is more popular at the lower levels than cursing out your opponent's mother, and our Villian can't very well raise 3x leaving him with 2/5 of his stack. AND we, of course, can't forget the slightly less favorable times when the goon pushes with A9 sooted.

all this said, while there is a middle ground in which you will be risking your tourney on a coinflip, you are basically getting the best of it the other times.

30% you are way ahead, 50% you are slightly ahead, and 20% you are biting it... i'll make the call

(once again, I realize this reply is probably only relevant to the LL buy-ins)

stlip · #17 02-04-2005, 12:35 PM

I let this one go by most times.

This is the gap concept from TPFAP in action. The hand that opens (and may walk off with the pot without a fight) doesn't have to be as good as a hand that calls knowing it is in for a fight. Especially with an all in push so that you'll have to let your opponent see all five cards. There's no opportunity here to use your good pair to bet him out of the pot if all that flops is a draw or ragged undercards.

A somewhat related point is that my impression is that people will make bigger mistakes more consistently calling all in pushes with hands that are too weak than making their own all in pushes with weaker hands than I would expect. So I prefer to pick my spots and give someone the opportunity to make a big mistake and call with a hand they have no business risking so many chips on than the trickier business of trying to find opportunities where I can call a push with one of my borderline hands and catch someone (other than a desperate short stack or a maniac, of course) who went all in on a particularly weak hand.

jeffraider · #18 02-04-2005, 01:48 PM

I think I'd want QQ, KK or AA to call here. MAYBE AKs depending on a read, but there's no real reason to tangle with this guy with three shortstacks out there.

AA suited · #19 02-04-2005, 03:01 PM

fold.

it's unlikely he has KK/AA since you usually don't push with this as a big stack. he may have a smaller pair, or JJ, or AK.

vs smaller pair - you're ahead
vs jj- you're behind
vs ak- coin flip

why fight another big stack and risk the tourny with TT when you can cruise into the $.