The fine line in defining online cheating (LONG)

[AncientPC]

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In this case, we have a full fletch bot.

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You misspelt this. It should have red full feltched bot.

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"... should have read as a ..."

[StellarWind]

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or 2. online sites will ignore the bot problem (after all, they still get their rake) and the most successful players will be state-of-the-art bots or humans that are using state-of-the-art software for analysis and advice as they play.

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This won't happen because the fish won't allow it.

The magic of poker is the losing players don't feel like suckers. But that will change if the public perception is that most of the seats in online poker are filled by strong bots. The people who make the game possible will disappear in droves and online poker will die.

The poker rooms understand this and will fight to the death to prevent it. Only time will tell whether they succeed.

[PoorLawyer]

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I couldnt agree with you anymore!! Its not poker when you have statistical software showing you how to play, or rather advising you.

I guess the mentality is, well others are doing it, so i have to as well to keep up. I have a very strong feeling towards pokertracker. As stupid/stubborn i may be, i only use it to keep track of my play for records financially and if i am beating games or not. Is there morality in poker? Is it even poker when i hear players saying I need extra skins so people dont have too much datamining information on me [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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i was talking about this the last 2 days in another thread and everyone basically thought I was out of mind for agreeing with this viewpoint

[PoorLawyer]

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In this case, we have a full fletch bot.

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You misspelt this. It should have red full feltched bot.

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does this bot come with witty dry humor and a lakers jersey?

[PokerAce]

Everyone keeps saying that bots will be a problem in the future. Seriously, a poker-playing bot that wins at a half-decent rate would not be difficult to develop now. Any software developer worth his salary would be able to do this.

The major hurdle that any bot developer and user is going to have is the poker sites themselves. I don't think we give the sites enough credit for their efforts. They no doubt spend a good deal of resources into preventing bots from running with their software. It's in their best interest to do so. These sites are printing money and they'll do whatever it takes to prevent their games from being overrun by cheaters.

I personally don't worry one bit about playing against bots. They may have an advantage in that they can always accurately calculate the odds and keep perfect memory of my play, but really, how much of an advantage is that? I will have stats on them too. It's important for any good poker player to change up their game anyway.

The point of this post is to tell you all not to kid yourself about the technological possibilities of bots at this time. It's absolutely possible to create them, but the sites will go to great lengths to keep their games clean.

[PoorLawyer]

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In this case, we have a full fletch bot.

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You misspelt this. It should have red full feltched bot.

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"... should have read as a ..."

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Either way, its all ball bearings these days.

[FlFishOn]

"...the sites will go to great lengths to keep their games clean."

There is no factual basis for this statement.

Poker sites will go to great lengths to protect their income stream. When protecting the customer overlaps, well then, you might have some bot protection but it will not be the first priority.

Bots generate rake too, exactly like a winning player. Both are parasites in the poker site's eyes.

[CountDuckula]

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I couldnt agree with you anymore!! Its not poker when you have statistical software showing you how to play, or rather advising you.

I guess the mentality is, well others are doing it, so i have to as well to keep up. I have a very strong feeling towards pokertracker. As stupid/stubborn i may be, i only use it to keep track of my play for records financially and if i am beating games or not. Is there morality in poker? Is it even poker when i hear players saying I need extra skins so people dont have too much datamining information on me [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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i was talking about this the last 2 days in another thread and everyone basically thought I was out of mind for agreeing with this viewpoint

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Not everyone; I did take your POV seriously, though I personally see it as more of a grey area than outright cheating. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I definitely don't use real-time tools, but I use PT to analyze my own play, and have very occasionally looked up other players' stats. But most of the time, I use notes and my own memory to peg other players. Just my own gut feeling about it, and again, I don't look down on other people who have a different take on it.

-Mike

[schwza]

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I couldnt agree with you anymore!! Its not poker when you have statistical software showing you how to play, or rather advising you.

I guess the mentality is, well others are doing it, so i have to as well to keep up. I have a very strong feeling towards pokertracker. As stupid/stubborn i may be, i only use it to keep track of my play for records financially and if i am beating games or not. Is there morality in poker? Is it even poker when i hear players saying I need extra skins so people dont have too much datamining information on me [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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my loose definition of cheating is "how pissed off would a new player be if he found out i was using this?"

i would say that he would be justifiably pissed about the use of pokertracker in game to track stats, and i think it's vaguely distasteful to use it. but i do, because otherwise i'd be giving up a big advantage. for me, the fact that you can use it and get most of the functionality of it for free makes is less distasteful.

[PokerAce]

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"...the sites will go to great lengths to keep their games clean."

There is no factual basis for this statement.

Poker sites will go to great lengths to protect their income stream. When protecting the customer overlaps, well then, you might have some bot protection but it will not be the first priority.

Bots generate rake too, exactly like a winning player. Both are parasites in the poker site's eyes.

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True, I have no hard facts to back up my statement. However, being a software developer myself, I am fully aware of how advanced development technology is. If I desired, I could develop a poker bot in a month or so's time and have it winning money. No doubt it wouldn't be as good as a decent player, but it would win.

[Poker Sites Ignoring Bots] + [Easily Made Bot] = [$$$$$ for Cheater]

Seeing how much money is in online poker, don't you think this would catch the eyes of software developers interested in cheating? If the sites turned a blind eye to it, they would currently be overrun by bots. I believe the sites are constantly waging a war with these bot developers. If they lose, well, the industry will die. That seems to be a pretty good incentive to keep things clean, if you ask me.