The ultimate ethical question

[TomBrooks]

Hi Derek,

Whether you go to the meeting or not is not that important. But whether you have good will towards other people and hope for them to be better, or you have contempt for other people and hope for them to be weak so you can benefit from it, will probably have a lot to do with how happy you are.

Since you are in NYC, you can easily learn more about this perspective from the seminars and presentations at the Aesthetic Realism Foundation on Green Street in SOHO. www.aestheticrealism.org

Best wishes,
- TomBk

[Derek in NYC]

I dont really care about other poker players at the table. I feel a vague sense of sympathy for compulsive gamblers when I'm not in a hand with them, but that sense of sympathy is tempered by the knowledge that every pot dragged by somebody else at the fish's expense, is one less pot that I can drag. Short of cheating, I believe I will do anything necessary to win at poker (provided I am not playing with a friend, which is why I prefer to play strangers). Im not sure if this is a moral failing on my part, or just the rules of the game that every player agrees to be bound by when we sit down and meet on the felt.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure if this is a moral failing on my part, or just the rules of the game that every player agrees to be bound by when we sit down and meet on the felt.

[/ QUOTE ]
If your proud of the way you look at it and it makes you feel truly good it couldn't be a moral failing. -TomBk

[PassiveCaller]

I did this for Alcoholics Anonymous, and Gamblers Anonymous for a psychology course. The human mind is an interesting thing.

[Los Feliz Slim]

OF COURSE this is unethical. You're thinking about attending this meeting under completely false auspices. Other people in the meeting are going to operate under the assumption that you're there because you have a gambling problem and need help, and if you allow them to operate under that completely correct assumption you're simply lying. I know poker is all about lying, but you're not at a poker table, you're at a GA meeting. If you want to be ethical, tell everybody exactly what you're doing there and see how that goes.

One man's opinion.

[tubbyspencer]

[ QUOTE ]
Short of cheating, I believe I will do anything necessary to win at poker (provided I am not playing with a friend, which is why I prefer to play strangers).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't you want to take your all your friend's money(at least if you weren't cheating to do it)?

[StellarWind]

I think you already know the answer to your question.

My impression is that everything that happens in a 12-step meeting stays in the room. You are attending for the explicit purpose of gaining information you can use against other attendees and people like them. I'd say you are violating the basic social contract behind the meeting.

It would be ironic if the meeting created empathy with their suffering and damaged your ability to happily exploit compulsive gamblers.

Playing online I don't have any experience with the human side of maniacs. Are they typically compulsive gamblers? What portion have other psychiatric disorders? How many are simply recreational gamblers who enjoy being the dominant center of attention? How many legitimately believe that their style works and are simply playing the best way they know how?

[buffett]

Comletely ignoring the ethics of your decision.....

How much profit is this going to bring you really? If you're already a 3+bb/100h player, how much higher do you think you can go by playing maniacs all the time? I don't have the numbers, but my gut reaction tells me that your winrate may improve only slightly but your variance will shoot sky high. Personally I'm comfortable with my bb/100h and my current variance, and I wouldn't want to try to juice the winrate and have to suffer crazy HUSH-style downswings as the price.
-web

[beset7]

When you look at a 12-step meeting schedule there are "open" and "closed" meetings. Just attend an open meeting; you are more then welcome there for whatever reason. That being said I don't think you'll hear anything there that will help you exploit maniacs. If anything, it will increase your sense of empathy and make you feel crappy about making your living at the hands of other's addictions. I wouldn't do it. I'd say it's unethical but you're not going to learn anything that you can actually use, IMHO.

[Joe826]

i think it'd be interesting, but i wouldn't go in looking to exploit it. i bet you also get free coffee.