Playing only the top 10% of hands.......

[wuwei]

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You're right about being paid off because most players do have their heads up their collective asses too deep to notice. However, while you most likely won't lose money playing this style, by limiting yourself to those range of hands, you're missing out on a lot of +EV situations. Unless you're absolutely horrible postflop, I think this is a bad idea.

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This is correct. As others have said, voluntarily playing 16-18% of your hands preflop is much closer to optimal. Start adding hands, which will give you a chance to improve your postflop play. Begin with hands in late position, where you have an advantage over others after the flop.

[27offsooot]

Since when is K9s in the top 10% of hands?

[amulet]

i find that on the days i do not get cards, or am in a very aggressive game and play 11% to 12% of my hands i do well. i think you are probably plaing slightly too tight if that is possible :-). a few additionaly hands probably have a positive ev. i think if you went to 15% you might make more $, but have bigger fluctations. those who suggest 18% to 20% are losing.

[sthief09]

how does one wipe one's ass with 6000 hands?

[BaronVonCP]

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those who suggest 18% to 20% are losing.

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or they play well postflop and make lots of money

[7ontheline]

I think it's presumptuous to say that 18-20% VPIP is a losing strategy. Clearly, you will be playing more marginal hands and be put in more questionable situations, but that is why there is post-flop play. Certainly beginning players should play tighter, so they can stay in situations where their better hand selection gives them an initial advantage over their bad opponents. However, better players and players at higher limits should be able to play more hands. It also keeps them from becoming too predictable.

[protoverus]

hey,

Thanks for the replies...

I get the picture!

A few things: I'm not venturing 4 BB/hr as any kind of true winrate. In fact, it's unusual for me to be running that high. It's just where I'm at right know after a piddly amount of hands. Qualitatively, I'm finding it easier to make postflop decisions which has helped alot though.

K9s is near the 10% line when considering how it fares in a multiway pot (the kind I typically encounter at .5/1 and surprisingly more so far at 2/4). There's no ACTUAL 10% line that I can come up with since various factors influence hand strength (# of players, reads, etc). Sorry if I came across as dogmatic there.

Lastly, my postflop play isn't all that great. I think that I've had more success because the decisions have been easier as was pointed out. I fully intend to let the VP$IP creep up, but was simply trying to understand if staying super-tight would be wrong. I think I've seen enough of 2/4 to loosen up, though I have been surprised that the tables I've been at are overall looser preflop than .5/1. The postflop play has been more difficult though with LOTS more raising and re-raising going on.

Thanks guys. I hope to post a few hands soon as some of the play at 2/4 has me mystified.

Be well.

[jason_t]

Lots and lots of hot girls with soft hands.

[protoverus]

7ontheline,

I guess that's what I'm getting at in some sense...

Better and higher level players need to play more unpredictably. In my considerable .5/1 and limited 2/4 play I have yet to see the need to vary much because people just call away with abandon. There have been specific instances where it became necessary but overall has anyone really had to mix it up at 2/4?

[Piers]

Assuming a full ten handed game.

If you are good enough post flop, I think you loose more by going from 18% to 10% than from 18% to 26%.

I think there is a steady downwards slope in return as you tighten up from the optimal pre flop tightness level, while there is however a plateau in the early twenties if you loosen up.

So I think tightening up is likely to have a more detrimental result than loosening up by a similar amount. As long as we are looking at number less than 10%. Once you are donating to over 30% of the flops there’s no recovery.

Oh I also don’t think it is clear what you mean by “only playing the top 10% of hands”. I was referring to VPIP above.