Is this hand indicitive of why I'm terrible at tournaments?

[ddubois]

Nah, I'll just do it myself:

You check-raise all-in, TPTK-stack-boy folds 75% of the time:
.75*850 + .25*.72*2650 - .25*.28*2100 = +968 EV

You check-raise weakly inducing him to come over the top, eliminating your fold equity:
.0*850 + 1.0*.72*2650 - 1.0*.28*2100 = +1320 EV

Do you feel its worth giving up about 350 chips to bust 7% of the time instead of 28% of the time?

[Myrtle]

[ QUOTE ]
your last question is an interesting one: if i had J8 and the board came QJ8 and i KNEW FOR A FACT that the other player had AQ, would i put all my chips in there? the answer to this, for me at least, depends on a lot of details such as how many players are left, whether i think the other player would make this raise without a set or 2 higher pair, what the buy in is, how my stack is in relation to the avg and how i feel my skill level compares to the other players. If i had an avg stack and we were about 1/2 way thru the tourney and the buy-in was low (i.e. under 50$), id go ahead and call with J8 and take my shot as a 72% favorite. these being roughly the circumstances you were in, i dont think necessarily your call of the all-in was bad, but like i said, you shouldnt have been involved in the hand.

hope that helps a little and welcome to the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given what you said above, under WHAT circumstances would you NOT play if you were sure that you were a 72/28 favorite??!!

[SpeakEasy]

[ QUOTE ]
Nah, I'll just do it myself:

You check-raise all-in, TPTK-stack-boy folds 75% of the time:
.75*850 + .25*.72*2650 - .25*.28*2100 = +968 EV

You check-raise weakly inducing him to come over the top, eliminating your fold equity:
.0*850 + 1.0*.72*2650 - 1.0*.28*2100 = +1320 EV

Do you feel its worth giving up about 350 chips to bust 7% of the time instead of 28% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? The poster here acts second. How can he check-raise?

[Army Eye]

[ QUOTE ]
I know QJ and T9 are both distinct possibilities here. Should I be protecting my chips and try to see a cheap show down (or even fold), or should I be pushing two pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are often 'dwindling' away as you say, in the middle of tourneys, it sounds like you are protecting your chips too much, if you know what I mean.

[ QUOTE ]

Go ahead and let me have it, I know I probably played this hand awful...but this brings up another question. If you knew 100% that you would have Jacks and eights against TPTK, would you put all your chips at risk this early?


[/ QUOTE ]

Two pair is a big favorite in that spot. If the other guy showed you top pair top kicker, it would be a massive, absolute catastrophe to fold.

In a large multi tournament, you cannot 'protect' your way to the final table. You need to accumulate chips and bulid up a stack. The fact that you ask this, it is easy to see why you are blinding out in the middle of tourneys. Must get the chips in when you have an edge.

[iRoD]

Hey Homebrew, I haven't read any of the other responses to your post but heres my opinion. It is unlikely that you are against 9-10 as the better would probably smooth call your reraise in hopes of slow playing and making more chips off of you. If you are against QJ, thats just unlucky and you are going to lose all of your chips here. J 8 suited is a weak hand and this is a prime example of why most good players choose not to play it. You want to avoid these tough decisions as much as you as can. Without a pretty solid read on my opponent, I'm not laying this down here, so I think that your post flop play is fine.

And in answer to your other question: YES! always yes here. Tournaments are all about accumulating chips, and you have to take advantage of these situations as much as possible. You're well ahead of TPTK, and if have a definite read that this is what your opponent has, you should always get your money in the middle.

One possible argument for you not risking all your chips against TPTK is in a satellite, and you are one person away from making it in and you have a healthy stack. In which case, why are you in situation anyways!

Cheers Pat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[Homebrew]

Thanks for all the replies. This site is awesome. Anyway, I guess I feel a little better about the play...it's good to get some feedback. I do see some advantages to just moving all in rather than the raising to 900. During the actual hand, I really wasn't too worried about the original bettor...I figured I was ahead of him. When I threw in almost half my stack for a raise, I kept thinking that T9 would probably have checked his straight from early position (I know sometimes people limp with QQ or JJ, but with no raise, I discounted these hands). If an early position player moves all in after my raise, do you lay it down?

I have another question about the hand. Let's assume that the original bettor will lay down his hand if I move all in. What's the preferable play in a long MTT like this? Try to get a lot of money in the pot (i.e. double up) with 28% chance of being eliminated, or win the 800 or so with 0% risk of being eliminated. Even if he calls the all in 10% of the time, maybe I should have just moved in. The only bad thing about moving in rather than raising is that I have no chance to get away if an early player checked a monster. I'm not sure I could have laid it down anyway...I probably should, just not sure I could!

Thanks,
Jeff

[juris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
your last question is an interesting one: if i had J8 and the board came QJ8 and i KNEW FOR A FACT that the other player had AQ, would i put all my chips in there? the answer to this, for me at least, depends on a lot of details such as how many players are left, whether i think the other player would make this raise without a set or 2 higher pair, what the buy in is, how my stack is in relation to the avg and how i feel my skill level compares to the other players. If i had an avg stack and we were about 1/2 way thru the tourney and the buy-in was low (i.e. under 50$), id go ahead and call with J8 and take my shot as a 72% favorite. these being roughly the circumstances you were in, i dont think necessarily your call of the all-in was bad, but like i said, you shouldnt have been involved in the hand.

hope that helps a little and welcome to the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given what you said above, under WHAT circumstances would you NOT play if you were sure that you were a 72/28 favorite??!!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my first thought as well reading this post.

[cferejohn]

Well played. The limp was marginal, but not awful as long as you think it is quite unlikely that the 3 remaining players to act will take a shot at all those chips in the pot. Getting your chips in on the flop when you flop 2 pair is great. You got in as a favorite and lost. Keep doing it.

PS you owe me a dollar.