Stangest overpair I've ever played.

[Riverman]

I really like this play, provided you raise ANY turn card (except maybe an ace)

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]

Even for a 30 game, it was playing too passive. I know the last two won't raise but will call w/overs. They may bet an A8 if checked to.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is the implication that they wouldn't raise A8 on the flop if you bet? Are you sure that you know the opponents that well? Just because you have seen them play passively so far doesn't mean that one of them won't decide to raise 77 or two overcards with a flush draw or whatever this time. And A8 seems very likely to raise. You have to be really, really sure that there is no chance that one of them will raise for you with a worse hand for checking here to not be terrible, and even then it's probably wrong. Maybe one of them is in a bad mood right now and decides to make a raise he wouldn't usually make or maybe he thinks for some reason that he has a feeling that you just have overcards. Unless you have played with these opponents many times and are absolutely certain they will never raise, you are wrong to keep saying that you don't have any chance of clearing out the field by betting. And even if it doesn't get raised, someone may fold a single overcard or a small pocket pair at least some of the time, which you like given that there are already fifteen bets in the pot once you call (plus the bets from the other callers).

[JasonP530]

The problem is, as James has said, there are no safe cards for you. The only ones im thinking of are the 2 nines and the nonheart 7's. Youre much better betting out and hoping for folds or a raise then looking for a safe turn card. Any over or wheel will likely make someone beat you. I understnad what you are saying, I just think its the wrong spot for this, given your position relative to other players and the vulnerability of your hand.

[Cornell Fiji]

I hate it.

With 7 online 30 players to the flop you could quite possibly be against a A, K, Q, J, and T. At least with a bet you will clear out most Ts, Js, and Qs doubling the amount of safe cards for you. Besides, any low card can make a 2pr from a blind whice wont know about it. On top of all that you are giving up value from the 2 or 3 callers that you would get. Clean up the outs, Pick up bets while you are ahead.

Hope you didn't spike a 9, and check it through again only to see a 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the river with significant action

-Steve

[Joe Tall]

there are no safe cards for you

So why should I bet?

better betting out and hoping for folds or a raise then looking for a safe turn card

So, now the safe card is a good idea?

Any over or wheel will likely make someone beat you

So I bet to give them odds to find it on the river?

given your position relative to other players and the vulnerability of your hand.

Exactly. Vulnerable.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[River2Pair]

I don't think there is a magic formula strategy-wise to win this pot. Its just too complex, seven players to the flop, and some of them good, tricky players. It seems from your actions and your tone like you're half giving up. But you have a few things going for you. You were the pre-flop aggressor, and you have an overpair.

For what it's worth, I think you might as well just stay aggressive here and reevaluate if/when somebody plays back at you. You just wouldn't expect to win most of the time. But enough of the time relative to the pot size to stay aggressive.

[afish]

I have to say, having played for six years, I still lack the ability claimed by many posters on this forum to characterize my opponents in such specific manners (e.g. "any-ace, any-suited, I really don't know what they fold when they do - types"). I would also tend to discount characterizations that make four of my opponents in a 30-60 game into horrendous players. I would also say that failing to bet a vulnerable overpair on the flop is a big mistake. I'd love one of the cold-callers to raise me and clear out the field.

[Entity]

Joe,

I don't get it. Isn't this the classic case of offering limited odds > offering infinite odds? I can see not raising here if someone bet into you, but not betting when people check?

If people call, you're getting oodles of value. A lot of the "outs" that they're going to be calling with have got to be shared.

But from what I see, this is one of those "if you can't protect, bet for value" moments, and with that many people in the pot, an overpair definitely is getting return on investment.

Rob

[rigoletto]

I know this game and I think you should bet. I understand your reasoning but because they are calling stations you stand to win a big pot, when your nines hold up. You are likely to fold a couple of the better players and I think that alone is enough to bet.

[lil feller]

After reading everybody elses responses, I'm a little surprised at the reaction. Personally I bet this flop, every time, but in my game there are normally people capable of folding. I think you can make an argument for either scenario. By checking the flop you are representing a missed AK, or something of the sorts. While disguising your hand is nice, based on the player descriptions you gave it sounds like you won't get KJ to fold after he hits a K, even if he thinks you have a better one, so this play loses a lot of value. It also sounds like nobody is going to fold any hand with 2 overcards in it, and nobody will fold an Ace. The problem is that with such loose players their range of hands is so vast that you won't know what hurt you.

My play would be to bet the flop, representing exactly what I have, and then see what happens on the turn. These are bad players, they'll let you know early if your hand is no good. Once you check the flop, however, you are committed both to raising the turn (on almost any card) and getting to showdown unless it is OBVIOUS that you are beat in 2 spots. Your flop check will make even passive players go a little goofy, as they think you don't have a pair, and you will have a much more difficult time knowing where you are at.

lf