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#11
01-04-2005, 05:33 PM
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Re: Playing Aggressive Players in a Ring Game
[ QUOTE ]
And as I said, waiting for premium hands does not work as I will get destroyed and not get paid off when I do get a hand. [/ QUOTE ] if they're that LAG then you just sit tight and let them bet your hands for you. check when you want to bet, bet when you want to raise, raise when you want to get all-in. you're playing right into his hands when you call raises with crap like K2o. that's what he's trying to accomplish. it's about winning money, not winning pots. 
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#14
01-04-2005, 05:41 PM
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Re: Playing Aggressive Players in a Ring Game
[ QUOTE ]
Well I hit TP low Kicker and I know the aggressor will usually put me all-in with that hand. So am I comfortable going all-in with that hand... nope. [/ QUOTE ] I assume that the agressor has been pretty much betting out at most flops whenever he is the PF raiser correct? If so and you are not willing to playback when you hit top-pair then it doesn't seem like a good idea to call a raise. You won't flop two-pair or better enough to make the money back. I don't know if I would be comfortable playing back either which is why I probably wouldn't call a raise. You should try and notice from previous hands the frequency this player folds or pushes back when he is faced with a raise on their flop bet. An agressive player will often bet when they missed.
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#15
01-04-2005, 08:01 PM
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Re: Playing Aggressive Players in a Ring Game
Your hand description is a little vague, but from the posts is looks like preflop he raised in front of you so you had a decision : Call or fold. I think the question of wether to call the bet on the flop is pointless... fold PREFLOP. If he's betting "every" hand and you have position on him (perfect!) then you need to wait for good to very good starters and K2o is NOT even mediocre.. they are bad.
Reconsider your entire thought process when you start a hand - think AT LEAST 1 street ahead... "OK, I've got K2o and the maniac raised in front of me. If I fold I lose nothing. If I call what can I hit that I'll want to play? If I hit a K do I want to play against him with a pair of Ks and no kicker? If I hit a 2 is it going to stand up?" Your answer to question #1 [ QUOTE ] Well I hit TP low Kicker and I know the aggressor will usually put me all-in with that hand. So am I comfortable going all-in with that hand... nope. [/ QUOTE ] is pretty clear. The answer to #2 is NO, a pair of 2s is not going to be enough to put your stack behind. So preflop FOLD! .... but since you asked specifically about the flop play I'll give you my 2cents on it : If you have decided that you are going to play this mess for whatever reason and your question is "should I call or raise?" I'll say this RERAISE HIM ALL IN. Put him to a decision for HIS stack instead of you always having to make the tough decisions. Will you win this often, probably not, but that's a function of your preflop call. Also... it may slow him down a bit. If he thinks he can run you over every time he'll keep doing it. Play Well! [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]The Ugly One! [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
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#16
01-04-2005, 08:21 PM
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Re: Playing Aggressive Players in a Ring Game
Not my habit to post 2 replies so quickly, but reading this post made me think of more to say so....
[ QUOTE ] Normally on these tables you get killed if you sit and wait for a hand. It just doesn't work on GOOD tables. So my starting requirements goes down as well and I start to gamble. [/ QUOTE ] How do you "get killed" waiting for good hands? Are you playing 10handed or 6handed? If you're playing 10-handed and if you're playing 1/2 NL and you fold for 2 straight hours at 60 hands/hour that's 6 blinds/hour * 2 hours = 12 blinds = $24 which is only 1/8th of a 100BB buy-in. Not having a ATs or better in 120 hands is pretty unlikely. With ATs or better I'd be happy to reraise an "aggressor" that seems to be raising EVERY hand and I'm betting there's plenty of folks on this site that would reraise with even less than that. If you just call w/ K2o then yes you are going to get KILLED by these aggressive players. If you pick up a legit hand and reraise and everyone folds preflop to you... wait several hands and reraise with KTs or JTs or some other mediocre holding and see what happens. If it gets folded to you then you know that you've developed a nice tight image and USE that to your advantage. Don't overdo it or folks will catch on or you'll reraise when the madman has real cards. Its not the aggressor that's killing you its prefop calls with K2o that are killing you. [ QUOTE ] If playing K2o is not +EV under these conditions then what is? [/ QUOTE ] I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this and say that AT BEST playing K2o PERFECTLY under these conditions is BARELY +EV. I would say that calling the raise and then being afraid to play when you hit top pair is a LONG WAY from perfect play with K2o under ANY conditions. What is.... KQs / KJs / AKs / KTs / K9s (if you reraise, but not if you call). Axs where x >=8. There are MUCH better choices than K2o to play in this situation and calling is probably not the way to play any of them. Rethink your preflop play altogether and you'll be in much better shape in the long run. Play Well! [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]The Ugly One! [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
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#17
01-04-2005, 09:43 PM
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Re: Playing Aggressive Players in a Ring Game
Against a super aggressive player all your holdings are stronger than they appear since he could be comming in and raising with anything. You not only have "a" pair, you have top pair. Your top pair no-kicker now looks very strong against his "I could be betting and raising with anything". Also, that flop of K 7 2. Isn't that the definition of a perfect follow-up bluff situation? Isn't that what very aggressive players are supposed to do after they raise you before the flop and a flop like that comes? He is almost compelled to make a bet here, that's who he is. I think about it this way. If the situation where reversed and it was you who raised before the flop with AQ or something and you got one caller and the flop came K 7 3 rainbow, wouldn't you follow up your raise with a bet? I would, and so would he. In your situation I would hope that I would raise him all-in. That way I wouldn't be able to chicken out if an ace came later. If he actually has something that 25% of the time, then well so be it. The other 75% of the time he'll have crap and you'll win.
It's much easier to say these things than to do them.
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#18
01-05-2005, 12:32 AM
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Re: Playing Aggressive Players in a Ring Game
Nothing new to post here. Just wanted to say that I liked both of your posts on this subject, and it was very nice of you to take the time to post such long, thorough (and on point) explanations. Take care.
- ToT
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#20
01-05-2005, 10:32 AM
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Re: Playing Aggressive Players in a Ring Game
As I said earlier, I appreciate all your responses.
These are 6 handed tables. If I sit and wait, he has an advantage and should have an idea about whats in my hand. So say flop comes 7 3 6 and their was a raise preflop and I call. Do I really have the 4 5. Probably unlikely so he can bet with confidence. He has put me on two over cards and can now come out with a huge bet that will take me out of the pot. So that's why I have to play [censored] hands. But I agree K2o is really a poor hand. Against a player like this I should be playing suited/unsuited connectors and face cards.
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