Preflop Bot

[gusly]

Here's my two cents.

1. Don't market this as a "bot." Market it as a "software skin" with added functionality. Said functionality being the ability to predetermine preflop actions, based on a "user-specified" set of rules.

Include a table of all possible starting hands, and have the user decide what action to take by checking off the appropriate choice based on position, pot size etc. Save the choices to an encrypted preferences file that can't be shared with other copies of the software. And don't include any suggestions other than telling the buyers that they can find advice on starting hands in poker books and on the Web. The appeal should lie in the ability to cut down on button-clicking, not in the ability to make calculations...

2. Include the option to modify those predetermined actions in real time. This will keep the fishes in play.

For example, say you're at x number of tables... your software skin could have a display of the cards you've been dealt and what the upcoming action will be, along with other relevant data, all in one spot. So for two tables:

<font color="green"> Table 1 </font> Kd Kh <font color="blue"> Action: </font> Fold Check Call <font color="red">Raise </font> ManualPlay
<font color="green"> Table 2 </font> Ac 6s <font color="blue"> Action: </font> <font color="red"> Fold </font> Check Call Raise ManualPlay

(To simplify things, I've left out relevant data such as position, number of callers etc.)

So a fish, having allowed the software to fold ace-rag twice in a row before the flop comes with two aces, decides that aces are hot tonight, and he's going to play his ace no matter what, goddammit. So he can change the predetermined action before it gets to him by clicking on ManualPlay or Call. +EV for the rest of us who know what we're doing.

Also, it would be cool to have something like this for SNGs and MTTs that will factor in blind levels etc.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I am against bots such as Winholdem and Robowhatever. I consider that cheating. My post here is simply about automating preflop button clicks that I would do myself anyway, based on knowledge acquired from books and the forums here.

[KJ o]

I'd be interested in the "general setup" code, mostly out of curiosity. I am not interested in the logic that fold hands specifically, but rather in the overall architechture of the program.

Could you give us a few tidbits. Is it based on screen scraping or does it listen to the network traffic?

Where this would be truly interesting for me is in automated data mining, for instance of SnG's. Now I manually have to open the tourney tables and thus can't let it run overnight. A simple software that navigated the lobby would be great.

[Pawtucket Pat]

I really hope that neither you or any other 2+2er uses this. I guarantee you its against the against Party's rules. This cannot possibly worth the risk of having your party bankroll confiscated. I am also completely against it because it not only would tighten up a lot of horrible players - why on earth would you want to do that?? and because it greatly reduces the only real challenge of multitabling, which is managing action on several tables.

Besides, if you're a winning player, would it really be worth tigthening up the masses so you could sell a couple hundred copies at $20 or $30 a pop? You can make that in a couple months of honest play. We poker players like to think in terms of the long run, so look at that way. Would you want this program or this idea to get out there and be widely used? I sure don't, and I doubt you do either.

[Pawtucket Pat]

I would like to add that I applaud your effort to ask everyone here about it, I for one certainly appreciate.

[carlo]

1) No way you'll limit its sales--how foolish do you think we are?

2) This type of PF Bot can only make a player worse--NO Think-NO Pay.

3) Players, good and bad, will catch on and play will adjust.

4) If you don't understand starting hands, you're in the dark and it won't matter. If you do understand starting hands it matters even less.

5)Anything can sell--check the internet ads for Viagra,Cialis,Cortislim,etc. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Your choice.

regards,
carlo

[smoore]

I started a project exactly like this, got it to scrape and then realized that as soon as I gave it to one person, EVERYONE would have it in a matter of time. Shift+Del the project folder. There's also the TOS and possible loss of bankroll.

Please do not release this... it may even bring out the old IRC warrior in me on any machine I find it on [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[gusly]

[ QUOTE ]
I am also completely against it because it not only would tighten up a lot of horrible players - why on earth would you want to do that?? and because it greatly reduces the only real challenge of multitabling, which is managing action on several tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're coming to a black/white conclusion when the reality is gray. What if poker sites didn't have buttons for predetermined preflop action? That would make multitabling harder, but would it be more fair? And is it fair that some players can afford multiple 1600x1200 LCD displays so tables don't overlap? Is that fair to someone who's trying to multitable on a 17 inch monitor and fighting to manage cascading tables?

What's wrong with giving someone the software equivalent of a bigger monitor with a little button clicking automation?

[scurvydog]

As far as it being "ethical", I think it clearly is. Anyone claiming that it isn't is just saying that our of self-interest and fear. If a bot such as this isn't "ethical" than neither is using PokerTracker nor reading a poker book or using any other external tool to improve your game.

I don't think distributing it is a particularly horrible thing. People are lazy. Anyone smart or ambitious enough to use it and set it up would be ambitious enough to eventually improve their game to the point where it wasn't necessary. People who gambool and are undisciplined aren't going to use it. The only money it would take off the table would be from players who would quickly take that money off the table themselves anyway.

I think marketing/selling it would be a huge mistake, though. It's clearly in violation of the terms and conditions of assorted sites. While you could make it expressly clear to customers that once they buy it, buyer beware (as far as possible crackdowns on users by Party et al) you would constantly be dealing with angry, angry customers who had their account frozen and/or seized by Party. You don't want that and couldn't charge a price high enough (given the limited scope and functionality of what it offers) to deal with that nightmare.

[gusly]

One other thing: people are overestimating the appeal of automation. Yes, I know this is about making money for us, but there's a ton of people out there that love gambling and the adrenalin rush it gives. They're always going to want to push the buttons themselves. There's no thrill in having a machine make all your decisions.

There's a certain thrill in doing things yourself and making your own decisions. Just ask any teenager. There will always be a ton of people who will never buy a car with an automatic transmission even with all the convenience it provides. The feel is just different.

[lorinda]

I think it's against Party rules, and rightfully so as it is best to draw the line in a tough place than in one that I personally don't have a problem with.

As for fears of fish drying up, there is 0 chance that they will be interested in a stupid program that does outrageous things like folding 57s preflop UTG.

Ethically I think it's fine, but I don't think Party will agree with you.

Lori