How Tight is to Tight

[kenberman]

I am a [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] in PT: SL-A-A, with a VPIP of 23 after about 15K hands at .50/1 on Party, playing nights and weekends. Winrate currently 3bb/100. Could my winrate be higher if I played fewer hands? Probably. But I like to GAMBOOOOL [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] and find myself in lots of ideal games.

I've only played about 3K hands at 1/2, but my VPIP is very similar, and my winrate (albeit at a very small sample) is slightly higher than my .50/1 winrate.

I'm not sure what my point is, except to say this: a VPIP of 15-18 is not neccesary, and may not even be ideal at Party .50/1. (most people in micro would probably disagree with that statement I think).

In a tough game, 15-18 is where you want to be. Party .50/1 is far from tough, and presents you chances to make a few more hands profitable. Therefore, I think maximizing value at .50/1 should require you to play more hands than at 5/10, for instance.

Suffice to say, your VPIP should vary according to game structure and your own post flop ability.

[DMBFan23]

In response to the responses to your question, I like this pattern as a cheap and fairly self sustaining way to starting off at online low limit hold em poker. (ie, dont buy ssh and pokertracker just yet!)

1) read a good beginner's book, winning low limit hold em by lee jones or hilger's internet texas hold em are often mentioned.

2) start off at a microlimit - either .05/.10, .10/.20, .25/.50, whatever your bankroll permits. you want AT LEAST 200 Big Bets at your limit, so 20 bucks at .05/.10 - 300 BB is the quoted standard thought. post hands as you play, and we'll help you out.

3) once you build up your bankroll to 300 BB for the next higher limit, move up.

somewhere in here, once you've read, reread, and understand your book of choice (winning low limit hold em?) and played a LOT (like 7,000 hands or so), buy Small stakes hold em, by miller, sklansky and malmuth.

4) repeat step 3 until you have about 300 bucks (that would be 300 big bets for .5/1).

5) dig up homer's "building a bankroll for newbies" post, and bonus whore for a little while.

6) using 55 of your bonus dollars, buy poker tracker

7) become a micro limit beast.

[Hack]

I stand with you on your recommendation.

SSH has made me a consistently winning player.

It is very mathematical but very awesome.

[Hack]

I really recommend a full 300 BB bankroll for the micro limits. The swings can be crazy and it would be terrible for a beginner to go bust with 200 BB if they hit a downswing like I had last week and the week before.

So if he plays .05/.10 I recommend he have a $30.00 bankroll at his site of choice.

[OrangeKing]

[ QUOTE ]
You're right, come to think of it. "SSH" has become such a Bible for me that I tend to think every great idea must have come from it. Though "VP$IP" comes from elsewhere (PokerTracker maybe? Which the new player should also obtain) I stand by my recommendation that the new player should get SSH. I also stand humbly corrected.

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I know, VP$IP is from PokerTracker. I'm sure it's possible it originated somewhere else, though.

[jskills]

I've seen a number of opinions on this. I think a VPIP of 16-20 is great when you're playing at the 2/4 or 3/6 levels. For micro limits, I've seen a VPIP in the low 20's work just fine. You also have to make sure you've played enough hands to accurately judge your VPIP. A sample size of 10,000 hands should give you a solid indication.

24 is a little high, so you could tighten up your starting requirements a bit, but I'd caution againsts getting obsessed with stats vs. playing solid poker and reading opponents in a given situation. Time will tell ...

[Emmitt2222]

Yay, time to join in on the newbie thread. Seems like every response has come from people I have never seen with under 100 posts. So I would say what other people have said, maybe try to tighten up a little but dont make it your main focus. The person who tracked you could be wrong depending on sample size because I have tracked some of the best micro 2+2ers and after over 100 hands they were still sLAA so dont worry about what that person said to you. Also, Kenberman, you most likely do not want your vpip for 1/2 anywhere over 20 because that game is tighter and calls for better hand selection.

*Emmitt

[Hack]

Hey DMB, do you or anyone know where I can find Homer's building a bankroll for newbies post? I guess I'm not sure of Homer's actual 2+2 username because I punched in his name and building a bankroll and had it search for 1 yr and newer and it found nothing.

TIA,
hack

[flair1239]

VPIP is completely dependent upon the characteristics of your table.

On certain tables with mutliple limpers in front of you. Even hands like 86s become playable for one bet from the button. On a table with the same characteritics it might even be appropriate to play suited junk from the SB.

On a tighter table all those hands become unplayable for the most part.

Additionally, on a very loose and passive table, where you are confident that you are not likely to be raised PF, you can play any pair from EP and Axs. You can even limp from MP with hands like QJo and JTo.

In my opinion setting a percentage goal without taking into account the table and the players is really a bad idea. However givent the choice between too tight and too loose I guess I would err upon the side of caution.

Instead of going by a spread sheet, study the different strenghs and weaknesses of the various hands and apply those to your situation.

[KLGambiT]

Hack, i believe this is the right post, sorry i dont know how to make a link outof it

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...198&Forum=,,,All_Forums,,,&Words=%2Bbuilding%20%2Bnewbie s&Searchpage=3&Limit=25&Main=1060198&a mp;Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&dat erange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderv al=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post1060198