Turbos vs. normal SNGs

[willie24]

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The decision is very important, and difficult to do well. I just don't see how it's more difficult than beginning or middle-game situations (where you have a universe of options, compared to the endgame).


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the decision in the early game is easy: fold.

unless you have the nuts

[hurlyburly]

I like the reduced rake on the stars turbos, but I'm not as big on the NLHE as the Stud and Omaha games. They are gravy and the blinds aren't as big of a factor.

I'd rather hit Party for 20+2 NLHE since those are easier pickings than the Stars 15+1 turbos.

[bucci]

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Turbo's are a game of bingo. If your monster hand doesn't come up in the first 20 hands you are done. If a good player has an advantage on the table the advantage will be visible in a 100 hand tournament compared to a 25 hand tournament.

Even in the end game situation, how many hands can be played heads up before blinds are 50% of each players stack? Skill in poker is shown over the long run, playing just a few hands eliminates any and all skill, and it does just come down to who hits their hands.

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You obviously don't play turbos. I play only turbos.
Turbos last a lot longer than 25 hands.

It depends on how you define a "good" player. By most definitions, yes, the "good" player has more of an advantage in the longer format. There is still plenty of room to exploit your advantage in the turbo format...

The endgame argument from the original post is invalid. I find that only about 1/3 of the time i get head's up are the blinds low enough to actually play. I like this because you'd be suprised how weak most people play head's up in the turbos. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Turbos are a totally different game. More a headgame than a regular SnG. You can play more in less time, and the rake is slightly lower. Both compensate a bit the fact that your ROI is going to be lower...

ROI high or low, if you're a winning player and your bankroll is big enough, then your winnings over time are a function of how many SnGs you can play.

[UMTerp]

How much lower is one's expected ROI for Turbo SNG's? I decided to start playing Turbos about a week ago, have about 200 $15+$1's under my belt, and although it's not a huge sample, have a 0.21 right now. I was a little disppointed with that number (this is the first time I've actually kept stats), given the numbers I read on here all the time that are often around 0.4. So 0.2 isn't that bad for Turbos if I can maintain it?? Or should my ultimate goal be higher??

I can live with 0.21, since I'm doing it 4-tabling, and I can generally knock out 6 or 7 Tubro SNGs in an hour (~$25ish/hour), just wondering if that was about normal among those keeping stats for Turbos here.

[bucci]

I think 21% is great. I would move up if i were you...

I'm doing 10% at the 105 level, which i'm pretty happy with..

[UMTerp]

Bankroll's not quite there yet. Right now, I'm 4-tabling two $25's and two $15's, and after another $300-$400, I'll be at four $25's.

[e_fermat]

I play the Turbo's almost exclusively now and find that they are probably 80-90% as beatable as the normal games. Factor in the time savings and my winrate/hr has gone up quite a bit. Even including the $55+5's, it is a rare day where I play a single SNG where there are more than 5 or 6 players left at the $100/$200 level (I play ~10/day). The crazies still go all-in early and frequently and few players can make the proper adjustment to the higher blind levels. Occasionally with a tight table and some decent players, they do become slightly more of a crapshoot but I'd say those are less than 20% of the games played. I'd estimate games that end in crapshoots: $6+0.5=0%; $15+1=10%; $25+2=15%; $55+5=20%. Sure, the odd time it's a problem but I'm sure the average player here has better push decision making than your average joe.

My ROI was in the mid-10s for my first 300 or so. My last 300 have been closer to 30% which I think may be sustainable based on better play (since I've joined here) but obviously I'll need to keep playing a few hundred more to find out.

If you want to know my player name, feel free to PM me as I inhabit some of the $25+2 and $15+1 space as well. I'm sure you're somewhere in my pokertracker.

Fermat