Help with AK.... - Page 2

nightlyraver · #11 11-22-2004, 04:43 PM

I don't think you can really count on him taking a stab at it if he has KK-JJ and an A flops. He MUST figure that you are flat calling with an A and a good kicker or a big pocket pair. The original raiser really can't bet the flop properly unless he wants to push as a bluff due the the size of the pot at that point. To bet the stnadard 1/2 to 2/3 the pot will involve pushing in over half his stack as a stab at the pot and I'm not sure if that's such a smart play considering it's more than likely that Hero has an A and will auto-call. Why would I put him on an A? Because a typicall player will re-raise pre-flop, perhaps a push, with a big pocket pair. Therefore, the only hands you can hope to push him off are JJ-99 and that's assuming that he wouldn't push with JJ or TT.

SossMan · #12 11-22-2004, 04:51 PM

If an Ace flops and he checks, I'm checking behind here just about every time.

nightlyraver · #13 11-22-2004, 05:03 PM

OMG, I didn't even consider that. Yes, you're definately right - betting after he checks is almost always a bad play in that spot. You may extract more bets from him if he has KK-JJ, you lose nothing if he has AK and you could lose your whole stack if he has AA.

Here is my question for you then: What if you check behind him, a blank falls on the turn and he pushes? Do you call?

SossMan · #14 11-22-2004, 05:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
OMG, I didn't even consider that. Yes, you're definately right - betting after he checks is almost always a bad play in that spot. You may extract more bets from him if he has KK-JJ, you lose nothing if he has AK and you could lose your whole stack if he has AA.

Here is my question for you then: What if you check behind him, a blank falls on the turn and he pushes? Do you call?

[/ QUOTE ]

yup.

Phoenix1010 · #15 11-22-2004, 05:29 PM

Just thought I'd toss two cents in.
I definitely agree with what other posters have said about min raising not being an option here. Personally, if I have someone marked as a very tight player and they raise in early position, I don't see much good in playing AKo at all. If I cold call and see a flop, 2 out of three times I've basically thrown chips away, and 1 out of three times I'm in a very tough situation. I can say from experience that it's very easy to get trapped with AK against an EP raiser, especially when you hit the K. And the times that you hit an ace and he has KK or QQ, you're not getting very much out of him, and if he has AK you gain nothing. the times you hit TPTK and he hits top set, you're dead.
Reraising all-in preflop is an option, but definitely not a good one, since there's no real scenario when you'll get a call and be in a good situation, and you have to wonder what the tight player would raise with that couldn't stand a reraise. If he has a hand weak enough to be scared off by the thought of KK behind him, then he probably wouldn't have raised.
I say let this hand go and let the players in the blinds deal with him, and wait for a time when you either have a stronger hand, or you can be the aggressor.

Regards, Steve

nightlyraver · #16 11-22-2004, 05:37 PM

Well, if you are calling his push on the turn then what are you trying to accomplish by not betting the flop? Is it to entice him to push the turn on a bluff of some sort?

SossMan · #17 11-22-2004, 05:42 PM

When he pushes on the turn after checking the flop (and you checking behind), his range of hands increases dramatically to include many underpairs that he's betting for value/protection.
I'm not scared of AA when I have AK on an A high board...there's only one way to make it. If he has it, then I'm just going to have to go broke. But I don't see why betting the flop and letting him off cheaply from TT-KK is any good.

nightlyraver · #18 11-22-2004, 06:08 PM

I know it would be some kind of Helmuthian laydown to throw away TPTK when he pushes the turn, but what is he pushing with on the turn that he isn't betting with on the flop? AQ and hoping you have AJ? He knows that you're calling with an A and that you're probably not calling with KK-TT. He also know that it's extremely unlikely for you to hit your set on the river. I just can't think of anything he's pushing with on the turn that loses to TPTK except MAYBE AQ.

zaxx19 · #19 11-22-2004, 06:21 PM

Wow, Phoenix is absolutely correct. Im just suprised nowone has jumped on him yet in here. OK here is the thing AK is a gamble pure and simple. @19x the BB i dont see the need to gamble. Also since he raised preflop and you say he has been playing tight your almost certainly behind or even here if you both get it all in. Why get involved here??
Im actually curious too see why people would feel like you should play this pot in this postion, Im not being sarcastic or viscisious...I actually wanna know the motivation some of you guys have for playing this pot in this spot??

SossMan · #20 11-22-2004, 06:24 PM

wow.
You think he would raise UTG w/ AQ, then not bet it on the flop?
When you check behind on the flop, most player assume you don't have the ace and his KK-TT is good, so he's value betting/protecting his hand from a possible scare card.

The check behind w/ a hand that isn't scared of a free card (already way ahead or way behind) is a powerful play.