No call on Flop cost me $1700 pot(30-60). Please advice.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
He is getting 14.5-1 [ QUOTE ]
UTG raises 3

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops. I read it too fast. The above line is what screwed me up. I read that line with '5 to the flop' and instantly thought 15 preflop.

5 players in for 2 bets preflop + 1 bet and 2 callers to him + 1 blind = 14. ( i tend to discount the sb for rake and ease for rounding down) If the guy behind raises with likely those guys calling, he can count on 3 more bets + the raisers 2 making it 19-2. 9.5-1.

If he hits his card, he will likely easily make up his implied odds on the turn.

Thanks again.

b

[elysium]

hi jacob

you're not getting 15-1 on the call. good fold.

[Kevin J]

Hi elysium-

Even though he'll make the nuts on the turn and go on to lose to a flush, bigger straight, or even a full house some of the time, I don't think he needs 15 to 1 here given his implied odds. The fold probably isn't as bad as some are making it out to be, but I do think it's +EV to continue so long as the original checker's are not likely to check/raise. And as others have pointed out, he might even want to raise himself, since it looks like UTG missed and even though it's not likely, it's still possible, that an eight or five could win it for him. Big pots require less aversion to risk. IMO-

[Chris Daddy Cool]

how are you playing 30/60 is beyond me when you say things like...

folding your gutshot when getting the right price.

[ QUOTE ]
Moreover I am afraid UTG(pre flop raiser) is checking a very good hand(probably a set)

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So 77, 44, 33 are standard utg raises now huh? please. work on your hand reading skills please.

More so, what annoys me about your post is that you specifically ask for the flop decision, yet you continue to post the rest of the hand that has no bearing on your flop decision whatsoever.

if the 6 didn't come you wouldn't have posted this at all, but since it did and you would have won you're being result orientated and this post is the equivelent of saying "Oh I shouldn't have folded 52o because I would have flopped a wheel."

So yea, obviously you should have called since the 6 came.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

hi kevin,

i think there's a good chance he's joking.

[Jacob]

Chris,

Thanks for your response. I am not sure why are you getting annoyed. Off course after the hand I feel I should have called. Not because it was necessarily the right call but because I would have won a huge pot.

The reason for posting rest of the hand was to not leave any suspense. Its not me but the others who are looking at the full hand and calling me a moron for folding.

I am just looking for the best flop decision regardless of the rest of the hand.

Also the reason I put UTG on a big hand is the way he plays. He was the one who raised preflop. 9 out of 10 times he bets if he has a big pocket pair or Abig. He checked so I was suspicious.

Thanks

[Kevin J]

Easy Mr. Cool. Outside of being overly harsh on the poster, I'm having a hard time figuring out what your post is supposed to be saying. Easy fold? Easy call? Close?

I think you should show a little more patience. Misplaying big pots can get costly. Jacob had a close decision here and asks a legitimate question. IMO-

I do see your point about being results orientated and if the 6 never came maybe he wouldn't have posted it. But it DID come, and now maybe some of us who might not play big pots well (I suspect I'm one), have a chance to learn from it.

[AceHigh]

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Moreover I am afraid UTG(pre flop raiser) is checking a very good hand(probably a set) and action is not going to stop at one bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would utg check a very strong hand and go for the check/raise? Wouldn't he want to bet his strong hand and let the fish call with there weak hands? Plus he is less likely to check the flop with the flush draw on board, he wants to knock out bare diamonds on the flop if he can.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop - 7d4d3h....I have been playing with all 3 MPs for over 6 months and am sure this flop had to hit had to hit at least one of them. .

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO. If that's an action flop for players calling utg raises, then I wouldn't worry about this decision. You will be getting these players chips sooner or later.

[Gabe]

You would have gotten 29 to 1 on a 15 to 1 shot. What can anyone say.

[Kevin J]

Hey Gabe-

I'm just trying to understand this better, since I myself do not play big pots that well...

Suppose he did have 3 outs (not 4), to hit his gutshot. He's still going to lose some of the time on the river to a flush, a bigger rivered straight, full-house, etc.

So it seems to me there are both implied and reverse implied odds to consider here. My question is, how far (and in which direction), must you adjust from the 15 to 1 he would need with only 1 card to come?