Live 5/5 Hand - playing AK on the flop - Page 2

coltrane · #11 10-13-2004, 04:13 PM

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agreed on all points. i rarely check/call then lead the turn if there is just one bettor but its not a bad play. ............. i wouldnt be the turn vs non-horrible players

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BK,

what line would you have taken in this situation?....same preflop?....check/call the flop?......then what?....

Ulysses · #12 10-13-2004, 04:49 PM

With a short stack in that spot, I will often make a big raise pre-flop. Like $100 to go or something.

A lot of the time I will just call though. The times I just call, I will check that flop and go from there.

turnipmonster · #13 10-13-2004, 04:53 PM

here's a nice short stack line. make it 100 straight. on the flop, if you miss, go all in. if you hit, check. thanks matt [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

--turnipmonster

pocketdueces81 · #14 10-13-2004, 05:13 PM

Clearly the move is player dependant. With a short stack at the table one cannot afford to wait around for a premium starting hand like AA KK QQ for a few hours (some people dont see these hands in a whole session). Last night I didnt see AA KK QQ AK and still wound up above my buyin due to aggressive play.

Personally never just call pre-flop bet of $15 when holding AK especially with just $500 behind. Barring some amazing read raising out of position here is the move that I make. If the initial raiser puts me all in I would fold 3/4 of the time but if he just calls, a pot sized bet on the flop is ideal.

TurnipMonster suggested raising $100 which is %20 of your stack. I wouldnt rule this size bet out either.

turnipmonster · #15 10-13-2004, 05:17 PM

FWIW I would just call a lot of the time too. I think it's a fine play in this spot. I was just giving an alternate line.

coltrane · #16 10-13-2004, 05:28 PM

I like your alternate line Turnip (Diablo suggested something similar).....and if I were gonna make a raise pre-flop, it would have to be big (like $100) and not a standard one.....my stack - although small compared to the table - is not tiny compared to the blinds.....

making it $50 like the other poster suggested makes no sense to me with $450 behind on the flop.....from the SB in that spot pre-flop, it's either call or bomb bet.....

again, my point of indecision though (having just called pre-flop) is what to do on the turn after check/calling the flop....no real set answer it seems....

turnipmonster · #17 10-13-2004, 05:32 PM

to me, a key point when raising or reraising with AK is to know what you are going to do when you miss, because it will happen a lot. so preflop I either have a plan for both situations or I don't reraise.

also I can't take credit for that line, matt deserves credit.
--turnipmonster

theBruiser500 · #18 10-14-2004, 02:01 AM

Diablo, what would your plan be post flop if you raise to $100 (with a $500 stack) and you get a caller. What would you do on a flop like, QJx, Qxx, 892, 562... how often would you lead out on those flops and how often would you check/fold or maybe even check/raise bluff all in? What about bet sizes - $100 $150 $175 $200?

1/3 the time you'll hit your TPTK, and the rest of the time you could rarely have the best hand and get it shown down or more frequently out of the 2/3 the time you don't flop TPTK you can bluff them out. What percent of the time do you suppose you'd need your opponents to fold preflop to make this play preflop, or even, is this an okay play knowing you'd be called in one place?

BTW, if undercards fall and you get two callers, I feel (with the right opponents obviously) this could be a better time to lead out big then if there was just one caller.

theBruiser500 · #19 10-14-2004, 02:39 AM

Turnipmonster, at first I thought you were joking in your response. That is an interesting line though on second look, you aren't joking right? Did you see Matt Flynn use that in a live game? How often do you use that line? It's pretty risky, you put up a lot of money to win a little.

Say the opponent calls prelfop, then there is like $230 in the pot preflop. You go all in, $400 to win $630 so the opponent has 3:2 on his money. If your opponetn knew you did this 70% of the time with AA or KK and 20% of the time with AK he simply would not be getting the odds (3:2 vs. 7:3). Some of the times he'll flop a pair and have a few more outs to compensate for a call, but when you haev AK you'll also have those 6 overcards outs so they kind of cancel out. To me this overbet looks like a strong play here against the right opponent, is my logic right?

muzungu · #20 10-14-2004, 03:53 AM

coltrane-

1. The basic idea in betting out is that you are denying the flop bettor any free cards if he is on a draw. Of course, if you think he has a big A and that he will bet if you check (or that he will fire again with his draw instead of checking behind) feel free to check again with the intention of c/ring all in.

2. You said that "against a decent player I could get raised a lot there"- this is good for you. If the turn blanks you are still ahead of the majority of possible holdings. Your stack is small enough that you can get it all in here and be good in the long run, especially if you can elicit a big move from a wide range of holdings. If you think betting out will increase his willingness to play aggressively, then by all means do so.

-muz