More fuel to the Psychoreligionology fire

[felson]

[ QUOTE ]
evolution (a proven process observed many times over

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?

[toots]

I've long thought that willful ignorance was a hallmark of American politics.

[uw_madtown]

[ QUOTE ]
Evolution is, as far as modern science can tell, a fact. It's been proven in laboratory studies, it's been documented in the field.

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If you had only started this sentence with the prefix "Micro", you would be correct.

Macro evolution, at least according to what admittedly mediocre, casual research I've done, is unproven and likely to remain so. Micro evolution is an undeniable process.

Note that I'm not saying I don't believe that macro evolution is the most acceptable theory for explaining the development of species, simply that it's not exactly hard fact either.

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
Note that I'm not saying I don't believe that macro evolution is the most acceptable theory for explaining the development of species, simply that it's not exactly hard fact either.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not your fault, but you've been misled by creationist hucksters.

Speciation (what creationists call "macroevolution") has been directly observed many times. It is a hard fact.

See, for example:

Ahearn, J. N. 1980. Evolution of behavioral reproductive isolation in a laboratory stock of Drosophila silvestris. Experientia. 36:63-64.

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Baum, D. 1992. Phylogenetic species concepts. Trends in Ecology and Evolution. 7:1-3.

Boraas, M. E. 1983. Predator induced evolution in chemostat culture. EOS. Transactions of the American Geophysical Union. 64:1102.

Breeuwer, J. A. J. and J. H. Werren. 1990. Microorganisms associated with chromosome destruction and reproductive isolation between two insect species. Nature. 346:558-560.

Budd, A. F. and B. D. Mishler. 1990. Species and evolution in clonal organisms -- a summary and discussion. Systematic Botany 15:166-171.

Bullini, L. and G. Nascetti. 1990. Speciation by hybridization in phasmids and other insects. Canadian Journal of Zoology. 68:1747-1760.

Butters, F. K. 1941. Hybrid Woodsias in Minnesota. Amer. Fern. J. 31:15-21.

Butters, F. K. and R. M. Tryon, jr. 1948. A fertile mutant of a Woodsia hybrid. American Journal of Botany. 35:138.

Brock, T. D. and M. T. Madigan. 1988. Biology of Microorganisms (5th edition). Prentice Hall, Englewood, NJ.

Callaghan, C. A. 1987. Instances of observed speciation. The American Biology Teacher. 49:3436.

Castenholz, R. W. 1992. Species usage, concept, and evolution in the cyanobacteria (blue-green algae). Journal of Phycology 28:737-745.

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Cracraft, J. 1989. Speciation and its ontology: the empirical consequences of alternative species concepts for understanding patterns and processes of differentiation. In Otte, E. and J. A. Endler [eds.] Speciation and its consequences. Sinauer Associates, Sunderland, MA. pp. 28-59.

Craig, T. P., J. K. Itami, W. G. Abrahamson and J. D. Horner. 1993. Behavioral evidence for host-race fromation in Eurosta solidaginis. Evolution. 47:1696-1710.

Cronquist, A. 1978. Once again, what is a species? Biosystematics in agriculture. Beltsville Symposia in Agricultural Research 2:3-20.

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Crossley, S. A. 1974. Changes in mating behavior produced by selection for ethological isolation between ebony and vestigial mutants of Drosophilia melanogaster. Evolution. 28:631-647.

de Oliveira, A. K. and A. R. Cordeiro. 1980. Adaptation of Drosophila willistoni experimental populations to extreme pH medium. II. Development of incipient reproductive isolation. Heredity. 44:123-130.

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de Vries, H. 1905. Species and varieties, their origin by mutation.

de Wet, J. M. J. 1971. Polyploidy and evolution in plants. Taxon. 20:29-35.

del Solar, E. 1966. Sexual isolation caused by selection for positive and negative phototaxis and geotaxis in Drosophila pseudoobscura. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (US). 56:484-487.

Digby, L. 1912. The cytology of Primula kewensis and of other related Primula hybrids. Ann. Bot. 26:357-388.

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Dobzhansky, T. 1972. Species of Drosophila: new excitement in an old field. Science. 177:664-669.

Dodd, D. M. B. 1989. Reproductive isolation as a consequence of adaptive divergence in Drosophila melanogaster. Evolution 43:1308-1311.

Dodd, D. M. B. and J. R. Powell. 1985. Founder-flush speciation: an update of experimental results with Drosophila. Evolution 39:1388-1392.

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Du Rietz, G. E. 1930. The fundamental units of biological taxonomy. Svensk. Bot. Tidskr. 24:333-428.

Ehrman, E. 1971. Natural selection for the origin of reproductive isolation. The American Naturalist. 105:479-483.

Ehrman, E. 1973. More on natural selection for the origin of reproductive isolation. The American Naturalist. 107:318-319.

Feder, J. L., C. A. Chilcote and G. L. Bush. 1988. Genetic differentiation between sympatric host races of the apple maggot fly, Rhagoletis pomonella. Nature. 336:61-64.

Feder, J. L. and G. L. Bush. 1989. A field test of differential host-plant usage between two sibling species of Rhagoletis pomonella fruit flies (Diptera:Tephritidae) and its consequences for sympatric models of speciation. Evolution 43:1813-1819.

Frandsen, K. J. 1943. The experimental formation of Brassica juncea Czern. et Coss. Dansk. Bot. Arkiv., No. 4, 11:1-17.

Frandsen, K. J. 1947. The experimental formation of Brassica napus L. var. oleifera DC and Brassica carinata Braun. Dansk. Bot. Arkiv., No. 7, 12:1-16.

Galiana, A., A. Moya and F. J. Alaya. 1993. Founder-flush speciation in Drosophila pseudoobscura: a large scale experiment. Evolution. 47432-444.

Gottleib, L. D. 1973. Genetic differentiation, sympatric speciation, and the origin of a diploid species of Stephanomeira. American Journal of Botany. 60: 545-553.

Halliburton, R. and G. A. E. Gall. 1981. Disruptive selection and assortative mating in Tribolium castaneum. Evolution. 35:829-843.

Hurd, L. E., and R. M. Eisenberg. 1975. Divergent selection for geotactic response and evolution of reproductive isolation in sympatric and allopatric populations of houseflies. The American Naturalist. 109:353-358.

Karpchenko, G. D. 1927. Polyploid hybrids of Raphanus sativus L. X Brassica oleraceae L. Bull. Appl. Botany. 17:305-408.

Karpchenko, G. D. 1928. Polyploid hybrids of Raphanus sativus L. X Brassica oleraceae L. Z. Indukt. Abstami-a Verenbungsi. 48:1-85.

Kilias, G., S. N. Alahiotis and M. Delecanos. 1980. A multifactorial investigation of speciation theory using Drosophila melanogaster. Evolution. 34:730-737.

Knight, G. R., A. Robertson and C. H. Waddington. 1956. Selection for sexual isolation within a species. Evolution. 10:14-22.

Koopman, K. F. 1950. Natural selection for reproductive isolation between Drosophila pseudoobscura and Drosophila persimilis. Evolution. 4:135-148.

Lee, R. E. 1989. Phycology (2nd edition) Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, UK

Levin, D. A. 1979. The nature of plant species. Science 204:381-384.

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Macnair, M. R. and P. Christie. 1983. Reproductive isolation as a pleiotropic effect of copper tolerance in Mimulus guttatus. Heredity. 50:295-302.

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McPheron, B. A., D. C. Smith and S. H. Berlocher. 1988. Genetic differentiation between host races of Rhagoletis pomonella. Nature. 336:64-66.

Meffert, L. M. and E. H. Bryant. 1991. Mating propensity and courtship behavior in serially bottlenecked lines of the housefly. Evolution 45:293-306.

Mishler, B. D. 1985. The morphological, developmental and phylogenetic basis of species concepts in the bryophytes. Bryologist. 88:207-214.

Mishler, B. D. and M. J. Donoghue. 1982. Species concepts: a case for pluralism. Systematic Zoology. 31:491-503.

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Otte, E. and J. A. Endler (eds.). 1989. Speciation and its consequences. Sinauer Associates. Sunderland, MA.

Owenby, M. 1950. Natural hybridization and amphiploidy in the genus Tragopogon. Am. J. Bot. 37:487-499.

Pasterniani, E. 1969. Selection for reproductive isolation between two populations of maize, Zea mays L. Evolution. 23:534-547.

Powell, J. R. 1978. The founder-flush speciation theory: an experimental approach. Evolution. 32:465-474.

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Rice, W. R. and E. E. Hostert. 1993. Laboratory experiments on speciation: What have we learned in forty years? Evolution. 47:1637-1653.

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[SnakeRat]

"In biology classes, our students are not learning the largely mathematical facts of 21st-century science; they're imbibing the consolations of a faith-driven 19th-century materialist myth."

Darwinism is too old and faith driven, eh?


NOT AS OLD AND FAITH DRIVEN AS THE BLEEPIN BIBLE!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

What a joke.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
there is still "debate" about whether evolution (a proven process observed many times over!!!) is a "theory"....


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This is interesting. How many times has evolution been observed?

Justin A

[maurile]

A zillion, give or take . . .

[CrisBrown]

Hi Justin and felson,

Read maurile's post for citations. Folks, the debate on both micro- and macro-evolution has been quite thorougly resolved. The scientific literature is extensive. There are disputes in the scientific community as to the details of the process, how many generations are required for any given mutation to take hold, etc., etc. But as to the core issue -- that species evolve and morph into new species in response to adaptations to their environment -- sorry, but you're arguing into the wind. You may as well argue that 2+2 really equals 5....

Cris

[CrisBrown]

Hi toots,

I'm reminded of something the former prime minister of Canada said: "If a Canadian politician said that he felt God had called him to run for office, and that the jury was still out on evolution, his candidacy would be dead before the news cycle was over."

I'm Catholic. I attend Mass every week, and every day during Lent. I believe in the transubstantiation of the Eucharist. I believe there are miracles. I believe there is a phenomenon which we describe as ESP because we don't yet have a scientific model which predicts it. I am hardly a hard-headed realist.

However, I also believe that science is an essential and necessary tool by which we come to understand our universe, and when the scientific method produces replicable results over several studies, I take the hypothesis thus validated as a fact. If that challenges some of my other beliefs -- even my religious beliefs! -- I conclude that it's time to re-examine those beliefs in light of the new evidence.

There are some fundamental premises (so-called "first questions") of religion which cannot be proved or disproved by science. Science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, for example. That's like trying to use the infield fly rule to prove that Gary Moss' last touchdown catch was illegal.

But when it comes to observable phenomena in the physical domain, science is the best tool we have. The best tool we have says that evolution is a fact. I'll take their word for it.

Cris

[toots]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi toots,

I'm reminded of something the former prime minister of Canada said: "If a Canadian politician said that he felt God had called him to run for office, and that the jury was still out on evolution, his candidacy would be dead before the news cycle was over."


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I heard her say that, too.

I find some irony in the fact that there's so much anti-science, anti-intellectual sentiment in US politics.

The country's affluence of the 20th century is due in very large part to our having the finest scientists and engineers. Science has been playing a greater and greater role in how we make our money, with menial grunt work taking a lesser role. Yet there's continual pressure to dumb down our next generation of high school and college graduates.

The result of this won't be very successful for the US, but I'm sure that developing countries that aren't quite so hostile toward the sciences will very much appreciate our relinquishing our former preeminence.