Heads-Up Limit Hold'em PF

[Glenn]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA you didn't just tell me to read HPFAP did you? This is why I don't contribute in this forum. I hate getting condescended to by some newbie, and then needing to repeatedly justify my presence. If you want to play sometime shoot me a PM. I'd like to see you "easily counter" me. I have played hundreds of thousands of hands of heads up poker. I was playing 1-1 professionally before poker became the new black. Raising most of your hands preflop from the button is the best way to play, and raising all of your hands is only a small mistake, if it is a mistake at all (depending on opponent). If you don't belive me, there is some guy named Lederer who supposedly raises 100% from the button. I don't have the time or motivation to spend 1500 hours arguing every small detail with everyone who isn't completely clear, especially since I've done it before, and especially since this one is so basic. If you want believe me, fine, if not, that's fine too, but if you want to talk to me like I'm some idiot that can't understand the incomplete 5 pages on S/H play in HPFAP that every wannabe mediocre s/h player clings too, save it.

[J_V]

I'm still clinging to those five pages unfortunatley.

But w/ threads like this, I'll be a heads up shark in NO TIME!!!!

But my preflop stategy is coming along. I've narrowed it down between always limping, always raising, or a little of both.

[AlwaysWrong]

Thanks for the replys.

Only playing 50% of your hands from the button seems much too tight to me, and probably to most people. 75%-85% seems like a better number.

When you get to this high % it's easier to talk about what you're throwing away than what you're keeping. Here is a possibile scheme of hands to muck pf.

x2o, where x isn't 2,A,K,Q
x3o, where x isn't 3,A,K,Q,J,T
45, 46, 47, 48, 49
57
23s, 24s, 25s, 26s, 34s, 35s, 36s, 46s

That has you folding 29/169 = 17% of the time. Are there hands that you would add/remove from this list of hands not to play from the button?

[Edit: I realize this has to be a list that you adjust depending on your opponent's tightness and post-flop play (if they are too tight you simply play 100% until they figure it out). It's also probably much less important than every other aspect of hu play, but I want to get a good starting point.]

[edge]

I'd play less suited low cards and more unsuited high cards. I'm a pretty bad heads-up player, but it seems to me like you'd rarely get odds to draw to a flush, and something like 72s looks like trash to me, whereas J2o has (obviously) more high card strength.

[Trix]

Remember what forum ?

[naphand]

[ QUOTE ]
you didn't just tell me to read HPFAP did you?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is exactly what I just told you to do.

[ QUOTE ]
I hate getting condescended to by some newbie, and then needing to repeatedly justify my presence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forums are not about repeatedly "justifying" your presence, they are about discussion and sharing of opinions. If you are too full of yourself to "lower" yourself to explain your opinions, then I think most people would be perfectly happy that you do not contribute. Call me a newbie if you wish, you may be the only person that does, but if it makes you feel better about yourself to do that, good luck. I am left wondering why you even made your post?

[ QUOTE ]
...(depending on opponent).

[/ QUOTE ]

This appears to be in agreement with precisely what I said.

[ QUOTE ]
Raising most of your hands preflop from the button is the best way to play

[/ QUOTE ]

You have failed to explain why. And if you can make the effort to re-read the original post, it taked about raising ALL hands PF. You seem confused about this point.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have the time or motivation to spend 1500 hours arguing every small detail with everyone who isn't completely clear

[/ QUOTE ]

If it is so obvious, it would take less than 15 minutes, not 1500 hours. Are you always so prone to overstatement? It does tend to call into question the claims you make for yourself... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

[/ QUOTE ]

This says it all.

[naphand]

Interesting article. Regulars on RGP will recognise the author of this website, while some of his views are controversial he has penned some thought-provoking articles.

And so, the strategy to counter being raised every hand from the SB? Call every raise (as outlined in this article). You are getting 3:1 to make the call, and against effectively a random hand, is an easy call.

All it does is remove the PF action as having any relevance to the hand, strategically (if you choose always to call and never 3-bet) and makes it entirely a post-flop game. The raise becomes a positional raise only (with the button).

[ALL1N]

[ QUOTE ]
A cursory glance through the HU section in HFAP clearly exaplains why and when it is most effective.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can understand the anger this induced.

* * *

If you don't understand why raising most of your hands from the SBB is correct, here's a simple explanation.

Assume a 2/4 game in which you both start with 4 chips. If you use this chart - http://www.jazbo.com/poker/huholdem.html - and your noggin, it is not too hard to see that the correct strategy is to raise all but the worst 13 starting hands from the small blind button (SBB) - thats 86% of your hands - and to call all hands in the BB.

Now the short stacks mean I've skipped 3.5 streets of play. But let me ask you this: who are these extra streets of play going to favour? The SBB, of course. Every street of play after the flop increases his value simply because of the positional advantage.

So while raising 86% of your hands is correct when you only play one street, adding extra streets and extra play means you should play MORE hands still.

I hope I have enlightened some of you.

Richie

Appendix:
noggin=brain

[Peter_rus]

What was the name of topic?

[MisterKing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A cursory glance through the HU section in HFAP clearly exaplains why and when it is most effective.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can understand the anger this induced.

* * *

If you don't understand why raising most of your hands from the SBB is correct, here's a simple explanation.

Assume a 2/4 game in which you both start with 4 chips. If you use this chart - http://www.jazbo.com/poker/huholdem.html - and your noggin, it is not too hard to see that the correct strategy is to raise all but the worst 13 starting hands from the small blind button (SBB) - thats 86% of your hands - and to call all hands in the BB.

Now the short stacks mean I've skipped 3.5 streets of play. But let me ask you this: who are these extra streets of play going to favour? The SBB, of course. Every street of play after the flop increases his value simply because of the positional advantage.

So while raising 86% of your hands is correct when you only play one street, adding extra streets and extra play means you should play MORE hands still.

I hope I have enlightened some of you.

Richie

Appendix:
noggin=brain

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting material -- thanks for linking to the percentages page, as I had not seen that before. The one way in which your "2 players with 4 chips each" example is problematic (and I realize you're only showing why raising a very high % of the time is right, as opposed to 100%) is the situations where your opponent is holding a top 10 hand... one with equity about .66 or higher. Here, your "always raise" strategy is going to get murdered because you're hemmoraging chips with the worst of it, and your positional advantage later on doesn't do enough to fix that. So even limiting yourself to all but the bottom 13 is not automatically +EV. Its more nuanced than that, at least when your opponent can apply pressure on future streets with the best of it.