Was This A Stupid Push?

[Stoneii]

Only reason I would like this was if I was even shorter stacked, took the gamble in your position and, if it paid off I just know with the advertising that my next all-in will get called (which is hopefully with a hand)

stoneii [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[mackthefork]

I think i would push and hope the guy has A5o or something idiotic like that, as long as there is no T or 8 you can live with it as a short stack in my opinion, if you lose you lose no big deal, hope for a 40% chance of doubling up. Theres my two cents anyway its not so bad, and you only have 4 or 5 hands to find something not 10.

Regards Mack

[Dov]

I think this wasn't so bad given that you have less than 10BB and a 1K ante on every hand. This means that you will not see 10 more hands.

This is changed somewhat by the fact that you know BB will call you. I think it is still close, especially if you know SB will fold b/c you will have the SB as dead money on a 50/50 shot against a random hand.

Of course if BB is selective at all about the hands he will play, this becomes wrong. Any hand he is likely to play will have you in trouble.

In addition, if you are not the shortest stack at the table, I wouldn't even consider this move. The other stacks will have to take chances first, and you may even get lucky enough to witness a big stack confrontation. You don't have a good chance of winning one of the top prizes, but there is no reason why you can't make it to the money if there are other shorter stacks than you.

Dov

[Bernas]

[ QUOTE ]
This is changed somewhat by the fact that you know BB will call you. I think it is still close, especially if you know SB will fold b/c you will have the SB as dead money on a 50/50 shot against a random hand.

Of course if BB is selective at all about the hands he will play, this becomes wrong. Any hand he is likely to play will have you in trouble.



[/ QUOTE ]

I think the opposite is true actually. I would be more apt to push with 8 10 if I knew the BB was selective about his hands. Then there would be much higher folding equity.

[Bernas]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a good chance I'll have a hand better than T8 soon. Only it will be behind a raiser, or from a mid or early seat. I'd rather have T8 vs. 1 random hand than Ax vs. a raise in front of me. The propability of being dealt a better hand is completely irrelevant to me because that better hand probably has more of a shot at being dominated than T8 does vs. the big stack bb.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually a contradiction to what you said before. If you waited for a better hand and someone raised before you, that doesn't mean they have a better hand than you or that you are dominated. At least not if the table is as loose as you described. If you had described the table as tight than you would be absolutely right and the play with 10,8 would have been the right play.

[jwvdcw]

You have plenty of chips compared to the blinds...why are you so eager to push? Be patient and wait for a hand. You can see about 30 more hands with your chip stack!

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this wasn't so bad given that you have less than 10BB and a 1K ante on every hand. This means that you will not see 10 more hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

How do you figure that?

7600 chips, 600/1200 blinds, 100 ante on every hand(if there is 1000 in antes in the pot in a 10 person hand- he wasn't totally clear on this)

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]
The table had been real agressive and pretty loose, and I wasn't sure I would have a spot before the bb came around again. I felt alright about going up with 8T vs. whatever he had, there was like 1000 in antes too.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

My first thought is that you made this whole thing up.

Assuming there are 16 left, it's hard to imagine a loose and agressive table. Usually my experiences have told me these tables are pretty tight as we get closer and closer to reaching a final table.

2nd - you added the ante in there at the last minute. If there are 16 left, it should be 8 per table, so I'm not sure what the ante is? Maybe it's only 800 in total ante and you each had to ante 100?

3rd- you left out a lot of details. What was the field size? how many place? are you in the money? on the bubble? etc.

4th- this table is loose and agressive yet it's folded to you on the button? Possible everyone caught crap here, but then I'd assume a big stack in LP would have made a blind steal.


Okay- so assuming it's real, or more likely this happened to you at another time. When you push with 10-8 off what do you expect to get called with? A loose player that made it this late isn't always a stupid player.

So He will probably either have a suite connector, or Q high. Either way, your either a slight dog, a big dog, or a very big dog if he has a hand. In your next few hands I'm sure you will see a better hand than 10 High.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The table had been real agressive and pretty loose, and I wasn't sure I would have a spot before the bb came around again. I felt alright about going up with 8T vs. whatever he had, there was like 1000 in antes too.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

My first thought is that you made this whole thing up.

Assuming there are 16 left, it's hard to imagine a loose and agressive table. Usually my experiences have told me these tables are pretty tight as we get closer and closer to reaching a final table.

2nd - you added the ante in there at the last minute. If there are 16 left, it should be 8 per table, so I'm not sure what the ante is? Maybe it's only 800 in total ante and you each had to ante 100?

3rd- you left out a lot of details. What was the field size? how many place? are you in the money? on the bubble? etc.

4th- this table is loose and agressive yet it's folded to you on the button? Possible everyone caught crap here, but then I'd assume a big stack in LP would have made a blind steal.


Okay- so assuming it's real, or more likely this happened to you at another time. When you push with 10-8 off what do you expect to get called with? A loose player that made it this late isn't always a stupid player.

So He will probably either have a suite connector, or Q high. Either way, your either a slight dog, a big dog, or a very big dog if he has a hand. In your next few hands I'm sure you will see a better hand than 10 High.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed completely. I also think this could be a fishing trip.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm 14th out of 16 remaining players, 7600 chips, 1200 bb. It's folded to me on the button with T8offsuit. I move all-in. The BB had a big stack and was playing a bit on the loose side, so I pretty much expected a call. I was willing to go head to head with T8 vs. whatever he had for the shot at doubling up there.

Was that stupid? Should I have waited for a better time? The table had been real agressive and pretty loose, and I wasn't sure I would have a spot before the bb came around again. I felt alright about going up with 8T vs. whatever he had, there was like 1000 in antes too.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

So 600/1200 blinds with a 100 ante? I am guessing you are 8 handed here?

I would wait for a better spot. At this point in a tourney, most people are feeling emmense pressure to win a pot ASAP. You have to resist this pressure. It is very difficult to remain calm when you get short stacked, but even if you go through you blinds again without seeing a hand you will still have 5000 left. That means (assuming the stakes arent about to go up) you can look at about 16 hands to look at before you take the big blind for the second time. When it is one hand before your second big blind, you will have 4200 I think. That is still > 3BB, so your pre flop raises will still have some folding equity. If you double up when you are at 4200, you will end up with more chips than you have now. In the mean time, a few people may bust because they acted rashly due to the pressure. (Of course that throws off all the chip caluculations, but that is a minor consideration here.)

Now, if you wait, you will almost definitely get a better spot to push in. Maybe it will be checked to you when there are really tight blinds or maybe you will pick up a nice hand and double through. Many times I have been in horrible chip position late in a tourney and caught a rush to get healthy. It takes a lot of discipline to not force things when you are short stacked, (it is one of the hardest things to do IMO), but once it pays off a time or two it should be easier.

By pushing here you are really just gambling (since you have next to zero folding equity against these blinds). This is not a good place to gamble, you are nearing the end of the tourney, and the payouts go up rapidly at the final table. Also, there are two shorter stacks than you. Just bide your time and let others fling their chips around until you find a good spot.