40/80 at Borgata

[3rdCheckRaise]

Dude
You should have 3 bet but that didn't cost you a hand...He was going to call you down all the way untill A or a K hits the board...you know ...one of those...

[James282]

Hi George - I do play in this game --- maybe I was here for this hand as I put in a longass session during the time you describe [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But yes, you need to be more aggressive as players in this game will do this with virtually nothing just to see where you're at. A queen isn't as scary a card as a king or an ace so his play was actually pretty good. But in order to not get run over - you need to play back at these guys - especially if it was one of the tougher local pros.

Last weekend I played a hand against a tight regular and it went like this. He open raised in EMP. I defended my blind with 63o. The flop came Q97. I check-raised. The turn was a 4. I bet and he folded AK faceup. Against certain players it becomes correct to defend with any 2 - don't let yourself be one of these players.
-James

[mike l.]

the only thing that matters here is that you seem confused about something important. it sounds like you think you want 88 to fold on that flop or turn. of course you dont. you want him to put in bets all the way to showdown, as many as possible but youd rather not lose him if it means he will put in more bets and see a showdown. in other words trying to figure out a way to shut him out on the turn is wrong. i know you know why and i know you know what im saying so why again did you start this thread?

[mike l.]

"When you 3-bet the flop, you wouldn't be doing it because you want him to fold his 88. You'd be doing it because you want him to call all the way to the river and extract an extra SB out of him."

right. but 3 betting may very well scare him away. in hold em, against aggressive fearless value betters who can lay hands down if you convince them youre beat it's correct to oftentimes go into a passive mode with very good hands because if you let them take the lead they will put in more bets then if you take the lead. worrying about the few times they catch up when they have something like a 2 outer is a silly waste of energy.

save the flop and turn pounding for multiway pots against suspicious calling station types. play differently against the smarter more aggressive players.

[andyfox]

Can't speak for the Borgata, but where I play, if you open pre-flop one from the cut-off and I have A-Q on the button, I'm going to 3-bet. And most other players in my game will do so too. So I wouldn't have put him on A-Q when he raised the flop. In fact, I would have felt I was ahead and played accordingly.

[George Rice]

[ QUOTE ]
i know you know why and i know you know what im saying so why again did you start this thread?

[/ QUOTE ]

Partly because I've never posted a hand before but mostly because my play has been bothering me for almost a couple of weeks. Figured you guys would quickly smack me back in line, which you did. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

But I'm not congfused about wanting an underpair to call, and if you read my comments in this thread you'd realize that. But I think that he would have folded on the turn if I played correctly and I would have won the pot. If not then my bad play actually saved me 1.5 large bets this time. But in the long run it cost me money.

[George Rice]

[ QUOTE ]
A queen isn't as scary a card as a king or an ace so his play was actually pretty good. But in order to not get run over - you need to play back at these guys - especially if it was one of the tougher local pros.


[/ QUOTE ]

If they are playing the way you say then it might be best to smooth call the flop and check-raise the turn, rather than risk him folding to the check-raise on the flop. Normally, I wouldn't check-raise the turn without a set or overpair, but maybe I should do so more often.

If you play there regularly you would know him, most of the others did. He comes down from Conn. regularly. I think he lives near Foxwoods, 40-50, about 5'8" and average build.

[George Rice]

[ QUOTE ]
save the flop and turn pounding for multiway pots against suspicious calling station types. play differently against the smarter more aggressive players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't raise at all? What do you do on the river? Bet out I assume.

[mike l.]

"Don't raise at all? What do you do on the river? Bet out I assume."

why? if he's going to bet something like 88 or 99 or 77 or something this way then punish him and let him bet the whole time and then checkraise on the river. if he takes control and then wimps out on the river a lot then bet the river and drive him nuts. if he wont call on the river when you bet into him and he'll only check behind then yes you do need to checkraise him on the turn. if he wont bet the turn then yes you need to 3 bet the flop and bet the turn. you see? work backwards.

[George Rice]

I see your point but I didn't know this player well enough to chose an option even if I was thinking that way. Based on my limited knowledge of him I think a check-raise is in order before the river. I'm thinking, based on the feedback on this thread, that check-raising the turn may be best overall. I originally thought that I should have check-raised the flop.

What I'll do in the future against him and others I deem similar is to vary my play in such situations and see how he handles it before settling on a "main" strategy, unless I can deduce it from how he plays against other players.

Thanks to you and the others for your feedback.