What's the play

[amoeba]

wow talk about some loose players.

After evaluating further, I believe the turn push is a mistake. My earlier advice was incorrect.

[tabish]

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I don't think you ever want to let a PP go in this situation. Folding a suited connector is one thing, but letting go of a PP is something I would never do here. The implied odds on this hand are absolutely absurd.

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With small pocket pairs (especially in early position), Ciaffone's 5/10 rule is useful. If you're committing less than 5% of your stack, it's an easy call, and if you're committing more than 10% it's an easy fold. At 10% of your stack, your implied odds are only there if you can double up if you make your set... which is possible, but definitely not guaranteed.

And like someone else mentioned, my advice to push on the turn isn't good. It's extremely unlikely that you've got a better hand than Button or MP1 if your draw doesn't hit, so there's no value in Button folding to your bet. If your flush or a 3 hits, Button may not call on the river, but an 8 is definitely good - most players won't suspect a straight draw at that point. (Given the cards MP1 actually had, a three of clubs would have been very nice if you had gotten to the river for free - and the three of diamonds would have been disastrous for you)

If you think you can see the river cheaply, then go for it. But with a pot that large, any bet less than all-in will seem weak to a decent opponent, and an overpair (which he's likely to have) will raise you all-in. But then again, you've got pot odds to call his all-in bet (unless someone already has a made full house), so maybe just check... it's possible that Button will check also or put out a small bet, which would let you see the river cheaply.

[josie_wales]

You should NOT be calling a 4xBB preflop raise with a drawing hand out of position.

jw

[josie_wales]

Ctide,


With one post you say you called because

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while the pot odds were ALMOST there, the implied odds were huge.

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Then, in the next post say....

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... I felt that if I hit my draw, I wasn't going to get any more out of the last remaining player,

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These statements contradict one another, I think.

jw

[Azrael_AOD]

What about a semi-bluff all-in on the flop by the Hero? you might be able to take it down right there. If the pf raiser only has a big pair or even overcards he might be unwilling to call, right? I love playing these kind of flops aggresively, though I might be playing them wrong. Also, you could check-reraise all in on the flop after the button calls the flop bet. That way you'd probably be able to get your pot odds for the straight draw and turn it into a +ev play.

Any comments? Am I talking sense or am I just talking outta my A!#?

[ctide]

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Then, in the next post say....

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... I felt that if I hit my draw, I wasn't going to get any more out of the last remaining player,

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These statements contradict one another, I think.

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Not at all. My implied odds are ALWAYS going to be much greater preflop than on the turn. At this point, most of my implied odds have already made their way into the pot. I made a $6 preflop call, and on the turn there's ~$150 in the pot. The chance of me getting the remainder of his stack in on the turn is much greater than on the river, especially if I hit the backdoor flush.

I'm not validating my action as being correct, however, since after review, I think it would have been better to just check. But the implied odds WERE huge, and those posts do not contradict each other.

[jcm4ccc]

I think you posted the results to prove that you did the right thing. The results don't prove anything. Everybody gets lucky sometimes.

You should be more proud of a hand that you play correctly and lose than a hand you play poorly and win.

You should have folded pre-flop. You were out of position with a weak hand.

[ctide]

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I think you posted the results to prove that you did the right thing. The results don't prove anything. Everybody gets lucky sometimes.

You should be more proud of a hand that you play correctly and lose than a hand you play poorly and win.

You should have folded pre-flop. You were out of position with a weak hand.

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Thanks for providing so much insight.

[jcm4ccc]

Sorry if my reply sounded snotty. Perhaps I was a little harsh.

But I count about 7 people who said you should have folded pre-flop, and you don't seem to acknowledge that. Do you agree, now that you've read everybody's replies, that you should have folded pre-flop? Or do you still think you did the right thing pre-flop?