KK hand, Ace on the flop

[thespecialist]

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I find no wrong in calling down, however I would raise the turn, (if he calls and he's beat you have 1 extra BB won from this hand); if he 3 bets I fold.

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And if A8 just calls cause he's afraid of your kicker, you lose an extra BB. You're simply not going to get to fold here often enough to give you the ability to raise.

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Raised preflop by UTG, I wouldn't put him on something like ace 8 or a bad kicker for that matter. The primary objective of the check raise on turn is not to check if you are beat or not, however it can be used as an indicator to tell you you're beat if it is 3-bet. Rather, the primary objective of this raise is to extract more value for your winning hand. Thus, your being worried that there are not enough opportunities to see a 3-bet is negated since; if he does 3-bet in this position it would be a sure fold, meaning you are positive that you are beat here and there would be a very little window for err in the laydown.

[Dr Rosen Rosen]

Sfer,

Your posts are always thought provoking and helpful. Can I get one thing clarified in respect to this play that Bison and you are advocating.

It seems to me that given the pot is heads up between you and the initial preflop raiser that this play is appropriate regardless of the A hitting the deck (if bet into). Is this correct?

[bakku]

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Sfer,

Your posts are always thought provoking and helpful. Can I get one thing clarified in respect to this play that Bison and you are advocating.

It seems to me that given the pot is heads up between you and the initial preflop raiser that this play is appropriate regardless of the A hitting the deck (if bet into). Is this correct?

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Yes Rosen. Basically, this is one of those 'win the most/lose the least' type of situations. You don't want to be spewing chips here only to go to showdown and find out you're losing to an A and you also don't want villain to fold an underpair. By just calling down, you let JJ/TT/KQ/etc. bet their 2 outers into you instead of raising and giving them a chance to fold. This also allows you to lose the least amount of chips if you are up against an ace. Not raising also prevents the villain from being able to reraise and push you off your kings with a worse hand.

[nopants]

This is an interesting hand. I would likely have raised the flop, but I see now why that is wrong.

Do you fold if he raises your river bet?

[chaz64]

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"I raise the flop to see what he has."

This never, ever works.

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So I should ignore Phil Hellmuth's advice of "raise to see where you're at?" [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[cold_cash]

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So I should ignore Phil Hellmuth's advice of "raise to see where you're at?"


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If he says to raise anywhere along the line in a hand like this, then yes. (I haven't read his book, but from what I hear there's also probably plenty more in it you should be ignoring.)

[sfer]

He had TT, MHIG. Since he was unknown, I probably pay off a river checkraise just to look him up. It's important to note that I took that like because I was pretty much committed to showdown from the start and the hand was heads-up.

[bisonbison]

He had TT, MHIG. Since he was unknown, I probably pay off a river checkraise just to look him up.

Against an aggressive opponent, I think check-raising this river with AA, QQ or AQ would be worth roughly 10,000 awesome points. That would be delicious.

[sfer]

You would want to checkraise the river just because it's me. Frankly, I don't blame you.

[btspider]

What would you guys do postflop if you had:

JJ on an Axx flop?
JJ on an AQx flop?
QQ on an Axx flop?

A call down with QQ might be alright, since KK is unlikely and KJ only has 3 outs.

With JJ on an Axx flop, you want another JJ, QQ, a non-capped KK, or KQ to fold. Is it worth raising the flop in this case?

With JJ on an AQx flop, you are more often than not against a better hand. I'm not sure you have good odds to call down. Do you raise and fold to a 3-bet?