88 100-200 hand

[Clarkmeister]

You need to checkraise the turn. Going to war on the flop is good too. 2nd pair plus the flush draw is a monster in this spot. Since you can get people to go 10 bets on the flop, I'd probably play it fast. Zee's preferred line is to checkraise the turn though, and I like that one a lot too. And no, you aren't folding ever.

[Zeno]

Would a checkrise on the turn be seen as too obvious a play from you? If so, more aggression on the flop may have been a better play.

Did you consider betting in the dark at all?

-Zeno

[elysium]

hi mike

take him to 5 bets pre-flop, and check-raise the flop. the problem with sudden reversing on the river is that it will fold out a weaker hand much more often than it will inspire a weaker hand to raise, and it will incur a raise more often by a stronger hand that otherwise would have called, or betout allowing you to call. you are also allowing a lone high suit to draw out on you cheaply by not showing early strength.

i've never seen you play it like this, ever. if you're sudden reversing for variance, it isn't bad, but you still need to show at least flop strength here, although i'm hard pressed to find a reason to check the turn. the turn check is not good here mike.

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
Would a checkrise on the turn be seen as too obvious a play from you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand your thinking here, and have to tell you, I believe that this exact line of thinking has cost me a LOT of money over the years.

My new credo is to avoid overthinking myself out of money.

I find it is easiest to rationalize it as follows: if my opponent is a decent player, he will think the play is too obvious for me to make, and he will therefore be less inclined to give me any credit for a hand.

Although it will not always be true, I find it is a useful device.

[Ikke]

[ QUOTE ]
Zee's preferred line is to checkraise the turn though

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey...this might get very interesting. I'd really want to hear his rational behind this one, because I'm quite convinced that check-raising the flop is better against a typical 1/2 player than check-raising the turn.

I think I played some 100/200 on pokerstars against zee (if the rumour about his userid is true) and if that's the case we differ from playing style on some fundamental points. Again, I'd really like to hear the specifics why you guys prefer check-raising the turn, because I really think it's risky (a check through) and often less rewarding.

I agree that if you decide to check-call the flop you need to check-raise the turn. But that's not the point. I think it's an error to check-call there even if you decide to check-raise the turn.

Regards

[Ray Zee]

i call his 3 bet. check call the flop. checkraise the turn. and decide what to do on the river. keeps me from getting outplayed also in a spot like this out of position.

[Ray Zee]

ikke,

that is not me on pokerstars. what is the handle and why do you think it is me. again it is not me.

[Zeno]

Good points.

My question was specific to Mike in this situation against this particular opponent. Only he can answer the question really.

But I certainly agree with your post.

-Zeno

[Steve Giufre]

[ QUOTE ]
i call his 3 bet. check call the flop. checkraise the turn. and decide what to do on the river. keeps me from getting outplayed also in a spot like this out of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean it keeps you from being outplayed in that particular hand, or in other hands down the road when you are heads up out of position? If anyone else is clear on which Ray is reffering to please chime in.

It's still hard for me to believe checkraising the flop and leading the turn could be wrong in this spot, but I'd rather find someone else to argue with. I think it depends on how likely your opponent is to check behind on the turn with a big ace.

[Dreamer]

The risk on the turn is if he checks behind with some of the hands I would put him on such as AK, AQ or AT (say with one diamond)

D.