Live 2-4: AA on Drawless Board and Top Card Pairs on the Turn

[Tosh]

At Party 15 and similar more aggessive games this would never be a fold but when passive players show aggression in this spot it should be respected.

[MRBAA]

As others have noted, it's very player dependent. On a drawless board, with no credible raising hands that give you more than 2 outs, you have a fold against a straightforward passive opponent who suddenly comes alive and bets into the field.

Against an aggrssive tricky player, who is capable of making this play with 88 or A7 in a big pot, you will want to call down.

In the 4-8 game I regularly play, I see both types of players and my decision here would come down to who I was against.

Against the type of clueless opponent you seem to be specifying (loose/passive), it looks like a pretty easy fold.

[bernie]

The 'tending towards passive' part may make this into a call since he's not a totally normal passive player. These types aren't usually prone to making moves on a pot. Especially against a preflop raiser, flop bettor who looks like he's going to showdown. I'd guess he has TP/marginal kicker.

I could lay it down depending on how i saw how he played prior hands. What would a passive type player raise with here? There are no draws, he isn't likely to bluff. Many wait to the turn with sets so he could have a FH.

If the guy was more on the tricky side, which would stand out a bit more on this table, i'd be more inclined to call.

Same decision if you had KK, JJ or TT as far as seeing the river.

Given the description, i'd fold.

b

[Tosh]

Thinking about it, its not clear cut. I have changed my mind, I don't think you can fold the turn with between 2 and 4 outs. Whether you can laydown unimproved on the river is not entirely clear either, I am now thinking I call that too.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Thinking about it, its not clear cut.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that makes Dynasty's point. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[jt1]

the problem is the player description, of course. When I played one table at a time when I was just beginning at PP, I was always making the wrong reads. I would see a guy not raise with top pair and label him passive then I'd fold TPTK when he raised in front of me only to see that I folded to a draw. In other words, it all depends on how certain one knows the player. If you know him well then it is a safe fold. If not (as is usually the case on line)then I would call down.

[bernie]

If you're calling the turn, you may as well call the river.

b

[blackaces13]

I think that live B&M against a straightforward/passive player its a fold. Online its a call absent some very reliable PT stats on the player.

[Tosh]

Its not automatic to call the river as well. You might call the turn with close to the odds to hit a card to improve you as well as a chance you may be good. If you miss and the guy bets again, you have more information about his hand strength, a lot of passive players even if they only tend towards passive would check through on the river. As I say I think I'd just pay off the river but just because I called the turn doesn't commit me to the river too.

[balkii]

I'll vote call down, and its easy. Fun? Not really. But easy? Yeah. People play funny, especially passive players. They can be passive with legit hands but can often be aggressive when they bluff. And you could have up to 4 outs.