Flopped trip K - Page 2

LeftBack · #11 07-19-2004, 03:07 PM

I think you should go slow. You've already got trips. You want to make money. You've got to give the caller a chance to improve.

If the turn's a diamond, and he's got the flush, you've still got outs to a full house. But, there are plenty of hands that could keep this guy going.

tardigrade · #12 07-19-2004, 03:16 PM

Yeah that's standard operating procedure on Party.

If I have a pair on the flop, but not the set, I usually try to bet or raise the flop, narrow the field, and then try a c/r on the turn if I'm in position and my hand still looks good. A set won't let it check through, and will usually 3-bet, at which point you can give up. The exception is when there are good draws to the flush or straight out there that people could be on. Then I just keep betting and see if I get played back at.

bdk3clash · #13 07-19-2004, 03:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should go slow. You've already got trips. You want to make money. You've got to give the caller a chance to improve.

If the turn's a diamond, and he's got the flush, you've still got outs to a full house. But, there are plenty of hands that could keep this guy going.

[/ QUOTE ]

If his opponent has two [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]s, he would have called a bet on the flop anyway, so you missed a bet...

bisonbison · #14 07-19-2004, 03:31 PM

You're overthinking this. Your typical loose passive player will call this flop with a ton of hands, specifically because hero bets.

Here is the conversation as it appears to loose passive players.

preflop:
UTG - I am limping because I like my hand.
Hero - I am raising because I am crazy.

Flop:
UTG - I am checking because you raised.
Hero - I am pretending to have a king.

Most loose passive players will call the flop if they think they have any chance of winning, because they don't trust the language of betting.

The fact that UTG folds means A) he's not super loose or B) he had absolutely nothing. But there's no way to know that unless you bet.

LeftBack · #15 07-19-2004, 03:32 PM

His mistake. He should fold (I would, he won't). He doesn't have odds to call against one caller. And, it's only a small bet.

I want more.

theghost · #16 07-19-2004, 03:36 PM

Against one opponent I like a check. He probably doesn't have two diamonds, so a check is good to either induce a bluff or let him catch something (like an ace for 2 pair). Maybe he has the other king and you have him outkicked (this is only a possibility before he folds). Maybe he bets a 4-flush.

I admit the slowplay will be obvious, especially when you come out betting on the turn, but what if the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] falls to give him the flush or 2 pair - you might get some nice action.

LeftBack · #17 07-19-2004, 03:38 PM

Tardigrade has a point. This behavior is very common at different times / tables of $.50/$1.

Bet with a pair on the board and you can fold the whole table, especially with AA or KK.

Maybe that's the more important point.

bdk3clash · #18 07-19-2004, 03:43 PM

OK, let's do this thing.

[ QUOTE ]
His mistake. He should fold (I would, he won't). He doesn't have odds to call against one caller. And, it's only a small bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, so just to clarify, you are saying that if UTG has 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]s, he should check-fold on this flop getting 6:1. You are also saying that you would have folded in this situation if you had two [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]s.

[ QUOTE ]
I want more.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the long term, betting accomplishes this. Think of all the times players call a small bet on the flop but not a big bet on the turn.

Note that by sacrificing a small bet on the flop, you need to earn an extra big bet on the turn more than 50% of the time, which you won't do, to make having not bet the flop correct.

bdk3clash · #19 07-19-2004, 04:07 PM

Also, I just noticed that you think he'd call a bet on the flop (even though he "shouldn't,") so even you disagree with you.

[ QUOTE ]
His mistake. He should fold (I would, he won't).

[/ QUOTE ]

LeftBack · #20 07-19-2004, 06:17 PM

6:1 requires 7 outs.

On the surface, he has 9 if he's four-flushed. Let's see how smart/paranoid he is:

--He has to subtract one for the unknown hole card, so...

--Is he obligated to subtract 1 or more because there are four cards that will leave him drawing dead?

Maybe not at Party, but this discussion should be relevant to more than Party $.50/$1, so I will take another pass at this problem on my own. I will try to compare the odds of improving to a full house with a set against the odds of improving to a flush with three or four suited cards, versus the chances of drawing someone in for another bet. I hope Mike Petriv has covered something similar.