40-80 hand

[Robb]

Hi Martin,

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I´ve played 40/80 only a couple of times and consider myself by no means an expert, but I´d be surprised if one should expect a win rate of more than 5-10% on the flop.

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I'd rate it a tick higher -- 10-15%. But it's definitely low. I'd probably follow the same course of action on the flop that I layed out for the turn. Namely -- fold to a call and raise/or a raise and call. However....

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I think that the better option would be to check/fold if an EP bets and there is 1 or more caller in front of you or checkraise if a LP bets.


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You make a good point because .....if leading out and cr-ing a late position bettor are close to being equally good then cr-ing is probably better because sometimes you gain info (EP action) for 0 bets that allows you to fold vs. the [1 bet, bad info, fold]. Especially if leading out is actually closer to 5-10%.

At first I thought betting out makes the hand easier to play. But now I think the little wimp inside me was really thinking, "It makes it easier to fold." because there aren't a lot of turn cards that I'm going to like. Hmm, I'll consult my psychiatrist on that flop bet and get back to you.

Regards,
Jamie

[MarkD]

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You probably have the best hand

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BS. You have 5 opponents and a pair of 7's 6 kicker and either 5 or 6 opponents (I'm not sure I'm reading the hand correctly). Even if you do have the best hand, which I think is unlikely, the entire field can draw out on you with close to half the deck.

[Clarkmeister]

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Out of curiosity, do you ever fold?

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Not if I can help it. Personally, i think most non-fish fold way too easily postflop.

[Clarkmeister]

You've been reading too much Middle Limit Holdem.

[MarkD]

I never did finish it (not because I didn't think it was good but because I'm lazy).

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise and will be following this thread closely but I don't think your flop play is as clear as everyone else seems to and I wouldn't be playing on this flop very often.

I think Martin Aigner's line is better. If you check and an EP player bets and gets called in multiple spots playing on would be bad IMO. If it gets checked to the button CR'ing would be good.

[Clarkmeister]

I'll post more detailed thoughts this evening, but the board texture is such that betting is better than checkraising. I would checkraise on a more coordinated board such as Td6d5d.

[MarkD]

Yah I know you like to wait to post your reasons so I will wait, but you seem to imply you almost never fold this flop. I find that incredible.

[Clarkmeister]

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you seem to imply you almost never fold this flop. I find that incredible.

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With a pair and a flush draw, it's pretty fair to say its rare that I fold.

How about this Mark? You limp behind two players with 8d8h. The BB bets into a Kd7d2d flop. EP calls, the action is on you with two players still to act. What do you do? Aggressively betting into boards like this really puts people in difficult spots without either a King or the Ad.

[MarkD]

I'm still inclined to fold here on this board, but I know I've raised in that spot in the past. I don't think I've ever given this type of situation enough thought though and certainly when I raised I didn't spend the time on it to really cement the play into my head.

I don't see folding in either of these spots as being too far wrong. I would certainly raise if I had JJ-QQ and most likely TT though.

[Clarkmeister]

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I'm still inclined to fold here on this board, but I know I've raised in that spot in the past. I don't think I've ever given this type of situation enough thought though and certainly when I raised I didn't spend the time on it to really cement the play into my head.

I don't see folding in either of these spots as being too far wrong. I would certainly raise if I had JJ-QQ and most likely TT though.

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Yeah, but they kind of don't count because you'd have raised with them preflop. And I'd definitely play this differently in a raised pot.