Foxwoods 5-5 NL hand

[Tuneman]

Like you said the preflop call was loose, esp. since it was a reraise. But with the flop betting, I see no problem with what you did. You said the table was loose, you were down on chips. So you went all in, with probibaly the best hand hoping to push out people who have a much better chance of improving their hand, than you do of yours. Maybe all-in was agressive, but a big bet wasn't bad.

The only reason I woulda been nervous is the reraise by the button, could been pocket queens or better. But it wasn't a terrible play.

[scrub]

The last time I played at Foxwoods I saw this rule misapplied twice in a 10/20 game. Their dealers and floor are terrible and I would call and ask for a decision before I went for a checkraise.

In a well run poker room he's stuck betting. At Foxwoods you might get shafted if you're not a very strident advocate for yourself.

scrub

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
The money is so shallow that a check-raise ties him to the pot, and his equity on even some crappy hands (like 4h4x and Ah9x) is enough that you want him out. It's 50-50ish that he has a heart, so that probably isn't enough to make up for the $100 that you make every time that he has nothing, but it's at least something to consider.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been out all day and just got back, but I've been mulling this over since I left the house and realized it was way closer than I thought at first.

My final conclusion was that as long as the guy was enough of a putz to be on heartless air some of the time he made this play, Mike was better off checkraising to make up for the times he's putting his money in drawing extremely thin. Obviously it all depends on the distribution of hands the guy is betting with, but if I somehow ended up in this situation and somehow felt as confident about my pair as Mike did, that would indicate that the guy was often going to have very little equity, so I still like checkraising.

Either way, the lesson is obviously that the mistakes you make early in a big-bet hand are often far more important than the decisions you make later. The decison to checkraise or push is pretty meaningless, in the sense that there's probably very little difference in EV. The decision that got Mike into the position in the first place was terrible, and cost much more than playing the flop "wrong."

I played a few hundred hours with Mike at UB last year, and I'm certain he knows better than to make this call. While he was lucky to get away with it this time, I think it's a good example of how making a mistake early in a hand, particularly when it comes to considering one's stack size relative to the preflop betting, can make a skilled player look just like an inexperienced player on later streets.

scrub

[cero_z]

Hi mikech,
You messed up badly on the flop. The folks who told you it was a good play if you thought you were ahead are completely wrong. This guy is gonna bet many, many hands if you check, out-of-turn shenanigans notwithstanding. It is rare for someone not to duplicate their out-of-turn action when you check it in that spot.

He will call you only with hands that beat you, and maybe with an overcard heart. But he would have bet all of those hands, plus tons of others which have as few as 2 outs, and you would of course call him. Further, with the hands that have only 2 outs (small pocket pair/no hearts), he'll put in the $100, and fold for $75 more.
You should be fine with it if he wants to call you with 5h5x, for example, even though that hand HAPPENS to have 11 outs twice against your hand, because it's still a terrible call. He has no way of knowing that a heart will help him.
Good hand to post; I hope my harshness doesn't stop you from posting more live NL hands.

[cero_z]

Hi mikech,
But the pre-flop call was mandatory. You can't fold for 35 more after calling 15, vs. a guy who's raising often with position.

[Tuneman]

wait so im confused are you saying he shoulda slowplayed him with a small raise?