Fold AK UTG?

[hectorjelly]

[ QUOTE ]
Min raising is c rap, Raising is meant to be a field limiting action. You want to play your high cards against a hand which it dominates, and the most likely way to be in this situation is in a raised pot. Min raising does not accomplish this. Limp instead and get out cheaper if you miss.

Jon

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising is sometimes intended to be a Field Limiting action, but not always. However Jon is right min raising is usually a terrible idea, as it accomplishes very little. Anybody who has called the original bet will call the second one as well, all you have done is alert people to the fact that you have a hand. Instead of min raising try limping, but you really should be raising with AK. An entire book could be written about playing AK, and the question really doesnt make sense without context. I would play AK extremely differently in a deep stacked environment than in your usual party poker $100 buy in. In general, the shorter the stacks the more aggresively I would play it. To me AK is a hand that never wants to see a flop, and if it does it going to be all in.

[RoyalSampler]

What happens when you raise 3BB preflop, hit your ace, take a stab at the pot and 2 people call?

Now the pot ~ 1/2 your stack, but you've invested only a small part of that. So do you risk 1/2 your stack on what is really nothing more than 1 pair? Or check call? Trips are always ready to eat you alive. I think from now on if I don't get it with my first stab, I will back right off and let people have it.

[Ghazban]

This is very game-dependent. In the low limit NL games (up to $2 BB) I play on UB and Pokerstars, you will get a lot of people calling you all the way to the river with an ace and a worse kicker. Giving up on the hand just because you got called on the flop is a mistake. This doesn't mean you need to continue to by hyper aggressive on the turn and river but giving up completely and check-folding will eat into your long term profits. You're also letting anybody semi-bluff their draws on the turn when they don't hit and pushing you off the best hand.

Now if you get raised or check-raised on the turn and still haven't improved, you're probably better off folding.

[RoyalSampler]

Yeh I agree, I'm just bruised a bit from last night where I hit the A and the K on the river, but lost to trip 9's (pockets). But I'm wondering if when the pot gets like this, betting half the pot is acceptable? Do people always write half pot bets off as weak, or do they get some credit for possible milking?

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
What happens when you raise 3BB preflop, hit your ace, take a stab at the pot and 2 people call?

Now the pot ~ 1/2 your stack, but you've invested only a small part of that. So do you risk 1/2 your stack on what is really nothing more than 1 pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

yep. at least with shallow stacks a la party - i love hitting TPTK with AK because people with kicker problems seem to love calling off their whole stack.

[kurtcobain]

A number of you wrote than min raising won't knock out anyone who has already called, which is obviously correct, but this post was for AK UTG. I play $2/4 blinds (eqiuvalent to the $200 party poker game, except you can buy in for $400). Since stacks are generally deep, you never want to be all in w/ AK unless its by some clown sitting w/ $40. If you raise 3x the BB UTG, and an A or K flops, you are only going to be called if you're beat or if someone's on a draw, in which case you have to play against a draw out of position. Since nobody really throws away pocket pairs pre-flop, a smooth call on the flop looks as much like a draw as a monster. If you lead out on the turn w/ TPTK, and get raised (as a lot of good players will do with draws) you will have to throw away the best hand. If you check, you're giving your opponent a free card or a chance to bluff you off the pot.

I wasnt all that serious in saying fold AK UTG, the point, though, is that at higher limits, AK in early position is not very good.

I agree that min raising is a weak play, but I actually WANT 2 callers w/ AK. Since its 2 to 1 that you'll flop a pair, and you can't call a raise w/ an unimproved AK, you're basically betting that you'll hit the flop. I dont like betting out on the flop w/ an unimproved AK because its a semi-bluff w/ 3-6 outs, and bluffing out of position in online poker has negative EV.

[Ghazban]

It depends a lot on stack size. If someone in the hand has less than the pot left in front of them, just about any bet you make will be called/raised all-in or folded. On UB, people love the "bet pot" button so you see a lot more pot-sized bets than on Pokerstars (in my experience). I won't make a pot sized bet on the flop if having two callers will make the pot the size of (or bigger than) my stack unless I have no problem pushing it all in on the turn. A half-pot sized bet on the flop will often push out hands like 2nd/3rd pair (or at least make it -EV for them to call) but flush/str8 draws will usually stick around. You can bet half to 2/3 the pot on the flop so it won't be so large on the turn/river but be more careful if a card hits that could complete a draw.

[RoyalSampler]

Are party people way worse than UB? Because I don't see too many people THAT stupid. I mean normally a call means at least second best kicker. With only one hand beat... that's risky. This is at 10/25c NL.

[Roman]

I think its time to be switching sites if that is true.

[RoyalSampler]

But $25 buyin sounds scary [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] That's the cheapest I saw, except what are the $5+1 tournies like?

Thanks [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Sorry about the highjack [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]