Checking flop to protect hand on the turn

[AlmightyJay]

I would bet this flop, but waiting until the turn is a concept I don't fully understand how to use yet, so I could very well be wrong. I think when it's checked to you, you have to bet. If someone in EP, for example, bet into you and got callers, you'd want to smooth call and wait until the turn to pop a raise. Can someone tell me if my thinking is wrong?

[TBone]

I didn't realize you were talking about the 77 hand in particular. I was generalizing the situation and not speaking of that particular case. In the 77 hand, I think you're correct that you need to bet out and hope overcards incorrectly bail.

[Ringo_Mojo]

*Replying without reading responses*

So you've got a medium strength overpair to a mostly uncordinated board and 8 people seeing the turn?

And you're expecting a safecard? What exactly would you consider a safecard in this situation?
A heart is going to put 3 to a flush on the board, any Q-K is most likely going to give somebody else a bigger pair. Medium/small cards will probably open up a variety of straight draws.

Bet the flop. Show some teeth and put some of those draws away.

[afk]

Bet. You have the best hand a lot of the time, but a very vulnerable hand as well. You also just gave 7 players a free card. That's horrible. Checking is pretty bad here in my opinion.

[Ajax410]

Betting with a small pair on a flop with undercards, if you think your opponents are likely to call, is not a good decision. You're much better off waiting until the turn, hoping to see one of the few safe cards that's left in the deck, and taking it from there.

The fact is, at micro limits, too many people are going to call to the river with overcards to make betting with a small overpair worthwhile. If you're headsup against someone, absolutely. If you're playing against 6 other guys...it just doesn't make sense.

Alex

[Greg J]

Value bet the flop. Don't try to get fancy. What you are trying to do usually applies when another player bets ahead of you and you will have good relative position if he bets again the next round to protect your hand. Even then, it is often correct to raise the flop. Can you protect yr hand against someone with, e.g. ATo? Two hearts? No. Can you cut down thier odds? Yes. Should you bet b/c you probably have the best hand? Yes.

You are thinking too much. Bet with your good hands.

[grjr]

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Why is it better to check here? I've been betting out in these spots too and I think I need to learn the distinction. I've in fact been more enthusiastic about betting with 77; since there's fewer friendly turn cards, I've been putting more pressure on the flop in an attempt to fold people.

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The reason it's better to often check in these situations is because, if someone DOES call your flop bet (which is very likely), there are no really good cards that could come on the turn. Ultimately, you're better off waiting until the turn to make sure that your baby pocket pair is okay.

Alex

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Ok, you have 77 and the flop is 632. I'm having trouble figuring out what safe card can come on the turn. A 7 is the only one I can come up with.

[Ajax410]

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Ok, you have 77 and the flop is 632. I'm having trouble figuring out what safe card can come on the turn. A 7 is the only one I can come up with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was trying to broaden my scope to all small pairs - but if you agree with the idea that people are going to be calling your flop bet (since micro players tend to call to the river with overcards with relative frequency), then you should agree that betting isn't going to accomplish much at all.

Alex

[@bsolute_luck]

i really don't understand people's suggestion to check here. you probably have the best hand, bet. it isn't to fold people necessarily since only worse hands will/should be folding.

you make people who are drawing to a flush pay. you make people willing to hold overcards pay. you make people drawing to a straight pay.

by checking, you're giving those people a free look, infinite odds, and you're not winning the maximum you can win with your hand.

[davelin]

Number three of the three most misapplied SSH principles I see.