Cheating in Poker

[J_V]

Are the games consistently good?

[mike l.]

"Are the games consistently good?"

ive played 80 (or 100) about 12-14 times in the past 6 months and there was exactly one time when i got in the game and within 5 minutes said "blech, this game sucks get me the hell outta here" (that was when i went and played a great 5 handed 200 game). the 80 game at that moment was literally so so awful it was just unbearable. but every other time the game ranged from somewhere between good to excellent, usually more towards excellent. plenty of very loose very aggressive play, not sure what else to say. the sort of games true experts rare as they are can just devour.

after youve moved out and made your first million you can thank me repeatedly with smiles and kind words.

[snakehead]

if you want specific information, start by giving specific information. who are your high limit sources, and who are they accusing? I suspect these are people who don't really play in the 80 or 100 games at the commerce or bellagio.

there is sometimes some collusion between players who are using the same bankroll in the 80 or 100 holdem games, but it is mostly soft playing each other and does not have much effect on the rest of the players. it is very rare that the collusion goes beyond that, and it is easily detected if it does.

in the larger games, I have never seen anything that could be considered cheating. usually these games are built around one or two live players who easily give up their money without being cheated.

when you start playing these games regularly, you will get to know the players and understand what is going on.

[SnakeRat]

Why would they softplay each other if they were using the same bankroll?

Doesn't that just draw undue attention to them?

[astroglide]

i would think it remarkably dumb for people on a shared bankroll to softplay each other unless it will leave one of them without enough money to sit right for the evening and they have no reserves.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Once in san diego i was playing 8-16 full kill. two vietnamese players were in the pot with me, a kill pot. I bet the flop, one raised, the other reraised, i called, the other capped. the turn it was check, i bet, next raised, next reraised, i folded. after that it was instantaneously check, check. this happened again on another flop, they kept raising me till i folded, then checked to the river when they were heads up. i got mad and immediately cashed out and told the floor (in private) but it did no good, nothing was done. Ultimately, i simply refused to play in a game where both those players were sitting.

Unfortunately, unless it's incredibly blatant, live card rooms usually don't take action enough to satisfy me when there's an accusation of cheating. This seems to be the norm more than the exception - nothing gets done. I suspect if someone got banned from commerce, they were being very blatant, and kept doing it even after being warned (just a guess, correct me if I am wrong).

online, there is a paper trail in the hand histories. if people would just report suspicious behavior immediately and quietly (don't tip them off that you know they are cheating) and provide hand #s it would be VERY hard to get away with cheating online. However, in my experience few people take these steps, and undoubtedly some cheating does occur even at the most vigilant sites.

the thing is, most people who cheat are not good players in the first place, thus they usually wind up getting caught eventually. the scary thing is when GOOD players team up and decide to cheat. if they do it infrequently enough and subtly enough, they could conceivably get away with it for a long time, if not indefinitely.

ultimately i feel a little safer in a live cardroom than online. I think less cheating occurs in B&M rooms than online. I think the live atmosphere and the cameras deter cheating moreso than the measures online sites use. this may or may not be the case, but it's my general feeling, i could be wrong tho.

al

[Nomar]

This is a topic that also has been of some concern to me.

I am not talking about tournements or an 8-16 game with a kill.

I regularly play middle limits (20-40,40-80, 50-100 on east coast) and have played, upto 150-300, in both Vegas and LA. When I visit LA I am normally there for several weeks, during this time I get a feel for the regular players in the games and learn to *accept* the chip passing/ soft playing. But is everything as it appears ? or is there anything more this ? complicated preplaned team tactics ?

After you read HPFAP and can beat the 40-80 level, do you have to read a book on how to create allainces, speak foreign languages, and squeeze a person out of a pot ?

Is this just "the nature of the beast," where part of moving up in limits and beating higher games is learning to spot teams, and devolpe counter strategies ?? Or is game selection just a much more important issue when playing higher limit games ?

Any insight by regulars in these games would be great.

[mike l.]

"Or is game selection just a much more important issue when playing higher limit games ?"

that. that's it right there. game selection. refuse to play in tight bad tough full of best friends sharing their bankroll games. be very willing to play in great 30-60 and 40-80 game when the 80 or 150 games suck. ask mr. snakehead about this, i think he's said things about this before.

your ego is your enemy.