Lindgren's JJ Hand

[ggbman]

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I was thinking it was a little strange that he didn't push as well. This was kind of early in the broadcast when he didn't have a lot of chips. He was probably planning on someone reraising and then he would push, but everyone limped to Tran. Once he raised and was called by Brown, the pot may have been too big for a push to get anyone off a hand.

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This isnt a party sng... he had plenty of bb and there is no reason to risk his whole tourt on jj in early pos. what if the raiser has a real hand, or a limper... game over(or a coin flip) he is a skilled playerand knew he could wait.

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Your logic here is very poorly thought through. Under most circumstances JJ is a great hand to get your money in with, but here was an exception. Brown either limped or made a small raise which Eric called. Everyone else came in, and then the LOOSEST player at the table made a raise, which Chad Brown called, putting the action back on Eric. In this situation, given the betting, Eric has Chad and every other player beaten preflop except the BB at least 98% of the time, and this is not an exaggeration. Given the play on Tran, JJ had excellent equity against his range of hands, not to mention the HUGE overlay Lingren gets on a push because of dead money in the pot. If you are going to confidently assert that this hand was played well, you need to think it through better. Eric is one of the best players in the world, but this hand was clearly butchered.

Gabe

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98% of the time... y not 97? or 99? (does this include slight edge coin flips) really no logic behind this number.

Get all his chips in with jj when he has a large enough stack to play the hand comfortably. sorry eric wont risk his tourt like most skilled players on a coin flip. instead he played the hand. saw a horrible flop and layed down the hand correctly. In this particular hand, because u could see all of his opponents hands, could he have pushed and took the pot down... yes. do u really think that’s true 98 percent of the time?

this brings to mind ivey getting all his chips in with jj only to be called by a preflop limped kk, didn’t you guys give him crap for that?

u think if a player doesn’t bet when he’s ahead cause you can see the hand as a bad play.

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First of all i meant to say that JJ is not usually a good hand to get your money in with in my OP. The point here is, Chad Brown doesnt limp call a raise UTG with any hand better than JJ, just as no one limps after 2 limpers with any hand better than JJ. The only person who could pose a threat was Tran, who raised out of the BB, but given his style of play, JJ has great equity against his range here. What can you refute about this?

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i though i did in my first post any of them could be playing a hand thats about even money with eric. more over tran is very unpredicable and could have him dominated. Your first post lacked all logic!

and even if your right(which your not cause many players are willing to change gears and limp with a big hand looking for a raise especailly with tran at the table) it still wouldnt make erics play worng...just different. yours has a small pot now erics a big pot in the long run.

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Your just being silly now, players aren't limping UTG and then calling raises with hands better then JJ. And they are not limping after 2 EP limpers with PP's higher than JJ. Yes i know they will mix it up, but the scenario's you suggest are just horribly unlikey. In reality, there is one player who could have Eric beat here, and he doesnt have him beat enough to justify the way Eric played the hand. It's not that i'm a phenomenal tournament player, but this is just common sense. Eric is one of the best players in the world, and in the heat heat of the moment, he butchered a hand. Not like i dont do that on a consistent basis. But just because he's Eric Lindgren doesn't mean he didn't butcher this hand.

[pipes]

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I was thinking it was a little strange that he didn't push as well. This was kind of early in the broadcast when he didn't have a lot of chips. He was probably planning on someone reraising and then he would push, but everyone limped to Tran. Once he raised and was called by Brown, the pot may have been too big for a push to get anyone off a hand.

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This isnt a party sng... he had plenty of bb and there is no reason to risk his whole tourt on jj in early pos. what if the raiser has a real hand, or a limper... game over(or a coin flip) he is a skilled playerand knew he could wait.

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Your logic here is very poorly thought through. Under most circumstances JJ is a great hand to get your money in with, but here was an exception. Brown either limped or made a small raise which Eric called. Everyone else came in, and then the LOOSEST player at the table made a raise, which Chad Brown called, putting the action back on Eric. In this situation, given the betting, Eric has Chad and every other player beaten preflop except the BB at least 98% of the time, and this is not an exaggeration. Given the play on Tran, JJ had excellent equity against his range of hands, not to mention the HUGE overlay Lingren gets on a push because of dead money in the pot. If you are going to confidently assert that this hand was played well, you need to think it through better. Eric is one of the best players in the world, but this hand was clearly butchered.

Gabe

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98% of the time... y not 97? or 99? (does this include slight edge coin flips) really no logic behind this number.

Get all his chips in with jj when he has a large enough stack to play the hand comfortably. sorry eric wont risk his tourt like most skilled players on a coin flip. instead he played the hand. saw a horrible flop and layed down the hand correctly. In this particular hand, because u could see all of his opponents hands, could he have pushed and took the pot down... yes. do u really think that’s true 98 percent of the time?

this brings to mind ivey getting all his chips in with jj only to be called by a preflop limped kk, didn’t you guys give him crap for that?

u think if a player doesn’t bet when he’s ahead cause you can see the hand as a bad play.

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First of all i meant to say that JJ is not usually a good hand to get your money in with in my OP. The point here is, Chad Brown doesnt limp call a raise UTG with any hand better than JJ, just as no one limps after 2 limpers with any hand better than JJ. The only person who could pose a threat was Tran, who raised out of the BB, but given his style of play, JJ has great equity against his range here. What can you refute about this?

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i though i did in my first post any of them could be playing a hand thats about even money with eric. more over tran is very unpredicable and could have him dominated. Your first post lacked all logic!

and even if your right(which your not cause many players are willing to change gears and limp with a big hand looking for a raise especailly with tran at the table) it still wouldnt make erics play worng...just different. yours has a small pot now erics a big pot in the long run.

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Your just being silly now, players aren't limping UTG and then calling raises with hands better then JJ. And they are not limping after 2 EP limpers with PP's higher than JJ. Yes i know they will mix it up, but the scenario's you suggest are just horribly unlikey. In reality, there is one player who could have Eric beat here, and he doesnt have him beat enough to justify the way Eric played the hand. It's not that i'm a phenomenal tournament player, but this is just common sense. Eric is one of the best players in the world, and in the heat heat of the moment, he butchered a hand. Not like i dont do that on a consistent basis. But just because he's Eric Lindgren doesn't mean he didn't butcher this hand.

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ggbman, agree with you completely. Given the play of the hand, the only one he had to worry about was Tran in the BB.

But this is no longer a small pot, its huge.

Its all dependent on Eric's read on Tran. I was not privy to all the play before which is important. But I think the chips have to go in.

[Notorious G.O.B.]

Smooth calling is not a good play, in my opinion. There is just a ridiculous amount of dead money in that pot, and Erick almost definitely has the best hand. Sure he might end up in a coinflip situation, but he could also easily take it down right there without a fight. It's not a party SnG, you're right, but you've still got to take risks once in a while.
When Erick smooth called in the first place, I thought he was doing it in the hopes of punishing a squeeze play artist, but I guess I was wrong.

[jdock99]

You are correct. It is much better to push JJ to get heads up against a hand that could raise 6 preflop limpers from the BB when the tournament is still 9 handed, rather than use skill and patience to wait for other people to knock themselves out and relatively risklessly move himself into 2nd place and when heads up get almost all the chips in the touurnament into the pot when he was a 2/3 favorite on the flop!

[siccjay]

I didn't see this hand, but I don't see why you would put your whole tournament on the line with JJ. With that many players in the pot you could easily be called. If you are the best player at the table, why risk it?

[Notorious G.O.B.]

Thank you for the sarcasm, that's helpful. I like playing carefully too, but there is too much money in the pot to leave it sitting out there like that. He's almost definitely got the best hand, and he's got a lot of fold equity. Does he just magically get heads up by playing safe? No, he has to pick up chips. This is a good spot.

[barryg1]

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Smooth calling is not a good play, in my opinion. There is just a ridiculous amount of dead money in that pot, and Erick almost definitely has the best hand. Sure he might end up in a coinflip situation, but he could also easily take it down right there without a fight. It's not a party SnG, you're right, but you've still got to take risks once in a while.
When Erick smooth called in the first place, I thought he was doing it in the hopes of punishing a squeeze play artist, but I guess I was wrong.

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I can't help but jump in since I was sitting in the audience at the time this hand happened. I've never seen seven players put money in on a hand at a final table before.

The key to this discussion is what the players had seen out of Henry the previous two days. I don't know how much Erick had played with him. I had never seen the guy before. He made a curiously small raise, and I thought he might have pocket Aces. Erick probably was afraid of that also. Now that we see the hands, it's easy.

Chad's play looks horrible now and looked bizarre at the time, but afterward he told he had played the previous day with Henry, and Henry had made many small raises with goofy hands and then continued betting them.

But only a few of us know why Henry didn't make any more small raises after the dinner break. Mimi coached him at dinner after she got knocked out (Vietnamese courtesy) and told him, "Start making raises the size of the pot or more. You can't beat them with small raises."

As a result, many of you have a skewed view of Henry's style up till that crucial hand.

Barry

[Notorious G.O.B.]

I defer to Barry's better judgement. I was multitasking when I watched the show, and didn't realize that Henry's raise was so small. I felt that JJ was a sound favorite over a normal sized raise, considering the way the hand played out.

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umm.. J-J is a horrible hand to get your money all in with if you have the chips to work with,

[Leaky Eye]

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(Vietnamese courtesy)

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I never seem to benefit from the cracker courtesy.