($22) A Fold I would have never made before

[Cactus Jack]

[ QUOTE ]
Nono, raising preflop here is not good. You want to play this for set value. Betting the flop with this many people to it is a waste of chips, even in position, don't do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely, no and argument--at least not much of one. I most likely would have called hoping to hit the set, esp since I would have to let it go if the CO or Button reraised my raise.

My weak argument for raising would be:

1)Narrow the field. Pairs play better against fewer hands.
2)If I hit my set, I don't want anyone drawing who may be helped by my 8.
3)I'm probably not going to make another dime off the limpers here anyway, if I hit my set. If I do, I may be in deep kimshi.
4)I want to control the pot, and limping here gives up much of the strength of my position.
5)If I'm reraised, I'm done and cheaper.
6)Given the way the hand went, what good is a set if you're not going to bet it? Raising gives you more info than you have at this point by not raising.
7)You guys must get better hands more often than I do. I'm a pessimistic poker player. I've gone too long without any good hands to play. In NL, pairs are good hands. The only hand that beats you preflop is a higher pair and doesn't look like their is one. I'm more likely to play a high middle pair from LP more aggressively because I cannot play low PP in EP later on. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Not that I would have raised, just pointing out why I say it might have been the preferred line of approach. Different ways of playing the same hand. Ain't that what makes Hold 'em great?

CJ

[Cactus Jack]

ps--Didn't mean to throw the thread off track. Lemme get it back on track.

1C5, why would you now fold this as you never would have before? I could only fold this on the bubble of a very large MTT. There just aren't that many monsters under the bed to fold here. Did you learn something new? Or think you did? Rather than asking for confirmation, explore your reasons why you did, would be my advice.

CJ

pps--I don't do polls because they never have a choice of "it depends" which is always the right choice. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[1C5]

Why did I fold? Just my read. 99% of the time I am not folding this but in 2000+ SnGs, this is one of the few times I thought I was beat.

And, he was nice enough to show me his hand after.

See below.

<font color="white">straitr balance 1110, bet 365, collected 675, net +310 [ Jc 8s ] [ a straight, eight to queen -- Qd,Jc,Th,9h,8s ]
</font>

[gumpzilla]

Nice job, but the times he flips over QJ you're going to feel like a bit of a chump. I still think this is a pretty easy call unless you know the opposition pretty well and can really establish that he has a straight.

[Cactus Jack]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did I fold? Just my read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa. Sweet. If my reading ability was that good that early, I'd be applying for a job with the Psychic Friends Network. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

CJ

[adanthar]

PF: standard. Flop check: standard, you're done.

Turn: One guy minbets ("I have a pair or a draw or ace high or I'm a moron"). One guy makes a small raise ("I have a Q or better"). You reraise ("I have at least 2 pair"). The minbettor calls (draw) and now the raiser 4 bets.

I have not seen the results yet, but this is a good fold.

[microbet]

It's close. Straitr (nice screen name here) seems to be absolutely telling you he has the nuts, but the question is does he often enough think that 2 pair is the nuts? (or is he just nuts often enough)

Nezza1 has played strangely and it's not impossible for him/her to have the nuts either. Not likely, but people sometimes are trying to get a raise with the tiny bet.

I really don't know, and definitely want to see the results, but I think Straitr probably has the straight often enough for the fold to be good.

edit: found the results. swear i didn't cheat.

[The Don]

For one, I would definitely raise preflop to 75 with 99 two off the button.

Given your situation, I would fold. There are 4 hands that are likely in this scenario. KJ, J8, QJ, Q10. It is much more likely that he has KJ than any other one simply because he made a "I have the nuts and I want action" re-reraise. This is a common play for players thinking on very basic levels (they happen to be very common at the 22s). I would say there is at least a 70% chance that he has some form of a straight so I really can't justify putting the rest of my stack in here. Your play wasn't weak-tight, it was smart.

[Sabrazack]

You overestimate the 22$ players. Hero is probably beat here 50% of the time, still he cant fold, there is money in the pot and he has draws to a full house. There are just too many nutcases at this level for me to fold here.

[valenzuela]

give me a % of the time hero is up against a straight.