HU against a "PT'er"

[bozlax]

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so I don't think you can count flop-to-river

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This might explain why the chart I'm looking at is wrong.

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The chart is right, you're applying it wrong.

[silkyslim]

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It's possible I could find a fold on the flop as my overcard outs are likely very dirty, but I don't mind the call. Once that turn card hits, the hand plays itself.

He's just bitter because you hit a runner runner to beat him. Nice hand.

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im getting 8.5-1 and i have a 2 backdoors and 2 overs. all of these may or may not be good. his range is a little wider than some are thinking because we were chatting and i had a read he was isolating. so ATs-AKs, 88-AA, KQs, KJs, AJ-AKo. with that range do u still fold?

[bozlax]

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so ATs-AKs, 88-AA, KQs, KJs, AJ-AKo. with that range do u still fold?

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The only parts that help you are JJ/99/88/AJo...the least likely parts. The rest you're still in trouble to. Give me "any pocket pair and middle suited connectors" and then we can talk.

[W. Deranged]

Obviously the only suspect street is the flop.

In general you probably have like 3-ish outs here. A three-betting hand (with the exception of JJ, maybe 99; TT has you drawing basically dead) is dominating you here (AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ). Occasionally you have three over card outs but your giving reverse implied odds with them and out of position will possibly miss bets when you hit anyway. Your bad door flush is suspect and maybe worth 1 out. The backdoor straight is even more unlikely. I think it's hard to say you have more than 3-4 effective outs here. We can't can't implied odds because in fact we're giving them, really. Heads-up a decent taggish type is not often checking behind on the turn here, as AK and AQ still rate to be the best hands on a turn blank and every other hand is going full-steam ahead.


So, I hate to agree with the table-coachy dude, but the flop call is incorrect in my opinion.

[jackdaniels]

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So, I hate to agree with the table-coachy dude, but the flop call is incorrect in my opinion.

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What kind of flop would you want here to continue in the hand? Top pair? Two pair? A str8 draw?

[Rex Ruthless]

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So, I hate to agree with the table-coachy dude, but the flop call is incorrect in my opinion.

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What kind of flop would you want here to continue in the hand? Top pair? Two pair? A str8 draw?

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I don't mind the flop to continue, but I don't think the pot is large enough to risk it. If there were about 3 people calling the flop, instead of just heads up, I think you have the odds to peel one off. I give him 4 outs total on the flop (0.5 outs for each K, Q - discounting because they may not be good enough on their own), 0.5 out for the 1 gap backdoor str8, and 0.5 out for the backdoor flush (you could lose to a higher flush). 4 outs is 10.8 to 1 against improving on the turn, but you still might need to improve again on the river. I figure he's getting 7.5 to 1 on the flop call ($15 preflop + $2 from the villian on the flop). The turn call is a no brainer once you get there, and nice check-raise on the river to get max value.

[silkyslim]

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Obviously the only suspect street is the flop.

In general you probably have like 3-ish outs here. A three-betting hand (with the exception of JJ, maybe 99; TT has you drawing basically dead) is dominating you here (AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ). Occasionally you have three over card outs but your giving reverse implied odds with them and out of position will possibly miss bets when you hit anyway. Your bad door flush is suspect and maybe worth 1 out. The backdoor straight is even more unlikely. I think it's hard to say you have more than 3-4 effective outs here. We can't can't implied odds because in fact we're giving them, really. Heads-up a decent taggish type is not often checking behind on the turn here, as AK and AQ still rate to be the best hands on a turn blank and every other hand is going full-steam ahead.


So, I hate to agree with the table-coachy dude, but the flop call is incorrect in my opinion.

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since he was so talkative and critiquing everyones play, i didnt want him to start isolating me all the time for easy $ from my flop folds. I was going to fold the turn UI. Can I invest 1 SB that is slightly -EV for image against someone who is paying attention?

[bozlax]

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Can I invest 1 SB that is slightly -EV for image against someone who is paying attention?

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Of course you can. What are you going to do when one of your overcards comes on the turn, you c/r him and he 3-bets?

[silkyslim]

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Can I invest 1 SB that is slightly -EV for image against someone who is paying attention?

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Of course you can. What are you going to do when one of your overcards comes on the turn, you c/r him and he 3-bets?

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id call down

[silkyslim]

so basically i understand that the flop call is bad and most every other opponent i would fold.