#11
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Re: Get to showdown more? Prove it.
Here are a few folds. Anyone play these differently?
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $3. <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO (poster) calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls. Flop: (6.33 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, CO folds. Turn: (4.16 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds. Final Pot: 5.16 BB Note: In the following hand, I was planning to raise the turn. Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls. Flop: (8.33 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls. Turn: (5.16 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds. Final Pot: 6.16 BB Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls. Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls. Turn: (4 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls. River: (6 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero checks... and calls? |
#12
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Re: Get to showdown more? Prove it.
This is just a thought. Calling down is one way to raise your WTSD%. What about inducing bluffs? My WTSD% is higher than and my aggression factors on all streets are lower compared to all stat posts in this forum. Coaxing turn and/or river bets from players who wouldn't have called one bet is an important skill. Certainly my WTSD% is higher than yours because I call down more but it's also because I'm inducing more bets from weak hands on the turn and river instead of allowing them to make an easy fold.
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#13
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Re: Get to showdown more? Prove it.
[ QUOTE ]
This is just a thought. Calling down is one way to raise your WTSD%. What about inducing bluffs? My WTSD% is higher than and my aggression factors on all streets are lower compared to all stat posts in this forum. Coaxing turn and/or river bets from players who wouldn't have called one bet is an important skill. Certainly my WTSD% is higher than yours because I call down more but it's also because I'm inducing more bets from weak hands on the turn and river instead of allowing them to make an easy fold. [/ QUOTE ] That's a possibility. My aggression is like 3.2, 2.7, 1.85, which seems pretty normal around here, though. |
#14
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Re: Get to showdown more? Prove it.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This is just a thought. Calling down is one way to raise your WTSD%. What about inducing bluffs? My WTSD% is higher than and my aggression factors on all streets are lower compared to all stat posts in this forum. Coaxing turn and/or river bets from players who wouldn't have called one bet is an important skill. Certainly my WTSD% is higher than yours because I call down more but it's also because I'm inducing more bets from weak hands on the turn and river instead of allowing them to make an easy fold. [/ QUOTE ] That's a possibility. My aggression is like 3.2, 2.7, 1.85, which seems pretty normal around here, though. [/ QUOTE ] I think you're probably still above the norm though. Admittedly, I'm a 30/20 type and I get caught postflop with a lot of weak holdings where I can't find value in betting or raising, but calls or check/calls are warranted. |
#15
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Re: Get to showdown more? Prove it.
Couple more hands.
wow this really blows donkeys. guy was playing back at me a lot... hence the flop raise. Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls. Flop: (4 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls. Turn: (4 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls. River: (6 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls. Final Pot: 8 BB Call this?????????? Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls. Flop: (4 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls. Turn: (3 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> SB checks, Hero checks. River: (3 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls. Final Pot: 5 BB I can feel my wtsd getting higher, yay!!!!!!!!!!!!! Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls. Flop: (8 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls, SB folds, BB calls. Turn: (7 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, BB folds, Hero calls. River: (9 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls. Final Pot: 11 BB omg i never know when to call with A high.... help me Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls. Flop: (7 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, UTG folds. Turn: (4.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> SB checks, Hero checks. River: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls. Final Pot: 6.50 BB call this shizzle? Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls. Flop: (5 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls. Turn: (4.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero folds. Final Pot: 5.50 BB |
#16
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Re: Get to showdown more? Prove it.
Hand 1: raising the flop does nothing. I'd just call down. The way you played it I don't like the river bet.
Hand 2: totally read dependent, but it could easily be a call. I would usually bet the turn. Hand 3: looks good. Hand 4: always bet the turn. Hand 5: again very read based. Folding is a good default. |
#17
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Re: Get to showdown more? Prove it.
[ QUOTE ]
For example: .32 x .54 = .1728. 17.28% of the time when you play a hand you get to showdown and win. How about 36% SD% but only 50% W$SD (which is close to my stats, so this is where I'm getting it from) .36 x .50 = .18 When I play a hand I take it to showdown and win 18% of the time or so. 0.7% adds up over tens of thousands of hands. [/ QUOTE ] this math is bogus. if you are only dealt winning hands 20% of the time, it is much better to have a 20% SD% and a 100% W$SD, than vice versa. according to your equations, those two stat lines come out the same. in your example, assuming your playing styles are the same, you're adding in 0.7% of hands where you win a pot, but 3.3% where you lose a pot. you should still come out ahead, but not by nearly as much as you suggest. |
#18
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Re: Get to showdown more? Prove it.
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: raising the flop does nothing. I'd just call down. The way you played it I don't like the river bet. [/ QUOTE ] Raising the flop here gets you to showdown for 1sb cheaper, sometimes may fold a better hand (I know, pretty much never, but 1/100 is better than nothing.) Also gains you a SB when you hit an ace before the river. Also gains you a SB if he doesnt follow thru on a semibluff on the river. Basically, I like raising here fairly often, unless he is aggro and will 3bet a fair amount. Not betting the river here is a mistake here as well. He obviously doesnt have a ten, a jack would PROBABLY give more action, but who knows..but still i think you see a 5, or maybe an ace a fair amount of the time here. Also 89, or maybe even other random junk. [ QUOTE ] Hand 2: totally read dependent, but it could easily be a call. I would usually bet the turn. [/ QUOTE ] Agree, I bet turn 100% of the time here. [ QUOTE ] Hand 3: looks good. [/ QUOTE ] Agree. Sometimes i just call flop also. [ QUOTE ] Hand 4: always bet the turn. [/ QUOTE ] Agree 100% [ QUOTE ] Hand 5: again very read based. Folding is a good default. [/ QUOTE ] Again, agree. -Mike |
#19
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Re: Get to showdown more? Prove it.
[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop here gets you to showdown for 1sb cheaper, sometimes may fold a better hand (I know, pretty much never, but 1/100 is better than nothing.) Also gains you a SB when you hit an ace before the river. Also gains you a SB if he doesnt follow thru on a semibluff on the river. Basically, I like raising here fairly often, unless he is aggro and will 3bet a fair amount. Not betting the river here is a mistake here as well. He obviously doesnt have a ten, a jack would PROBABLY give more action, but who knows..but still i think you see a 5, or maybe an ace a fair amount of the time here. Also 89, or maybe even other random junk. [/ QUOTE ] 1.) OP says the villain has been playing back at him a lot. I take this to mean that a flop raise will be 3-bet a good bit of the time, both by legitimate and non-legitimate hands. I think this threat negates the possibility of a 1 SB cheaper showdown or any small amount of extra value. 2.) Per the river bet, looking at it again I agree with your assessment and I now like a bet best. You're right that we would have seen more action from a J or T. |
#20
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Re: Get to showdown more? Prove it.
1)
If your default play in hands like the first one is to call if someone bets into you, u got a problem that got nothing to do with WTSD. If it is a rock, u raise and take a free card, if it isnt u raise and bet turn. 2) All the hands u give example of are without any reads on your opponents. Do u have reads but dont give us them? U will never survive long at a higher limit without good reads that u act on. (Everyone got reads theses days with playerview and such, but how to act on them is a different thing) |
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