KQo and i'm first to act

[bakku]

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hey justin, i check/call the river. i don't think i'd call the river raise.

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Talking about the hand afterwards, mike said he's bluff raising that river about 0% of the time. The reason is that when I check the turn, it's a defensive check, and it's screaming that I want to get to showdown. Either that or I'm going for a checkraise with a strong hand in which case I'm not folding to a river raise either.

Given that I'm still uncertain whether bet/fold or check/call is best on the river.

Also there's one other line that we decided was super expert, any guesses?

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justin, i think i've changed my mind to bet/fold. mike is almost never betting the river w/ a worse hand when you check to him but will call with worse hands.

also, i think the super expert line is to c/r the river and fold to a 3-bet. bet/3-betting is too spewy, imo

[andyfox]

"Ok lay into me."

You want 2+2ers on your left.

Other than that, I don't see anything for which to lay into you.

Its hard for me to lay into you when I wouldve played your hand the exact same way on every street.
PREFLOP: Standard

FLOP: Standard

TURN: I love your check, by checking you take away any chance Mike can outplay you off the best hand.

RIVER: Autocall. Mike's hand is still not defined, but your hand is, he knows chances are that you have a marginal holding that you may not be able to call a river raise with, which means mike is probably raising this river with quite a few hands you can beat, He only needs to be bluffraising here a small percentage of the time(approx 12%) to make calling the raise correct given the size of the pot.

As far as should you of checked the river?? Im not gonna let Mike1 check down Kx or worse when I have the nut second pair so I would bet like you did, and Im certainly not gonna let him raise me off this hand on the river given the weird way he played his hand.

I think you played this hand as good as you can play it.

[winky51]

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Its hard for me to lay into you when I wouldve played your hand the exact same way on every street.
PREFLOP: Standard

FLOP: Standard

TURN: I love your check, by checking you take away any chance Mike can outplay you off the best hand.

RIVER: Autocall. Mike's hand is still not defined, but your hand is, he knows chances are that you have a marginal holding that you may not be able to call a river raise with, which means mike is probably raising this river with quite a few hands you can beat, He only needs to be bluffraising here a small percentage of the time(approx 12%) to make calling the raise correct given the size of the pot.

As far as should you of checked the river?? Im not gonna let Mike1 check down Kx or worse when I have the nut second pair so I would bet like you did, and Im certainly not gonna let him raise me off this hand on the river given the weird way he played his hand.

I think you played this hand as good as you can play it.

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is why I love poker. All this tricky deception within a hand.

[W. Deranged]

I generally like it.

Bakku's suggestion to check the river is interesting. I think the value of checking is it avoids putting in 2 bets against an A and also may induce a river bluff.

The way you've played your hand, you could conceivably have a lot of hands on the river. You could have a big A (or even bigger) looking to screwplay the turn and have missed. (The old HPFAP line of checking the turn pretty regularly.) You could have a weak A and be looking to induce a bet from a weaker hand on the turn while avoiding spewing/getting played off the best hand. (Bet flop, check-call turn, bet river would be a very viable line with a hand like AXs). A smaller hand like a medium pocket pair is a bit less likely though betting a hand like TT on the river for the purpose of trying to fold a weak K or something like that is not entirely out of the question.

Mike will recognize that most of your hands though are probably in the KJ+ range, though. Because you do have some weakish hands in that range, raising becomes an option for him if he thinks you'll fold some Ks and such. Therefore folding to the river raise is not good in my opinion.

In turn, I think the river raise might come from a weaker hand often enough to make it better to bet the river than to check.

this is one of those hands you want to get a cheap showdown with.. i might even check the river and if he has a K hes not going to check behind you, also he wont check a pair behind you probably.. but i call that river because hes probably thinking his K is good here. if he turns up a weak A oh well.. move on.. you didnt loose too much in this hand.

[PokerBob]

i don't see anything wrong with this at all. which is likely a bad sign for you.

[ErrantNight]

i haven't played mike 1 but once he raises this river aren't you good approximately never?

[Justin A]

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i haven't played mike 1 but once he raises this river aren't you good approximately never?

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Yeah pretty much. What i failed to distinguish is that mike will mix in a river bluff raise, just not in this particular situation.

I think Mike played it really well.

On the river I just can't figure a worse hand than yours that Mike plays like this and that will call a river bet, other than maybe a weaker K. Since the odds are better that he has an A OR that he'll bluff bet the river if checked to, I think a river check/call is the way to go.