More Poker Now info (Party poker puts the hammer down) - Page 2

AngryCola · #11 03-12-2005, 04:21 PM

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However, the rake charged by the main sites out today is outrageous.

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I've never understood this line of thinking.
B&M cardrooms generally charge a higher rake than online poker sites do.

The online rake is fairly reasonable, IMO.

Vern · #12 03-12-2005, 04:22 PM

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How exactly do the rake-free sites make money?

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There typical model is to rake hands just like the other sites, but to cap the rake collected from each player at $X. So imagine a site set X at $50, you pay rake normally until you have paid $50 then no more rake is collected from any pot you win. This way the site gets rake from the numerous people that play a little poker, and those players that play a lot get a break. The problem is getting the masses into the site, since the players that we want to play against, the losing players, don't care about rake. A rake free, or rake reduced structure would appeal to those playing 10K+ hands a month and would be a pool full of sharks fighting over a very skimpy selection of fish.

This is why the big sites don't have to change thier rake, they have the players we want to play against which is more important to us than rake. The first site that offers a good slection of players and a better rake deal will thrive. The hard part is the former, not the latter.

Vern

Standard Disclaimer, I am by no means an expert at any of this.

Vern · #13 03-12-2005, 04:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, the rake charged by the main sites out today is outrageous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never understood this line of thinking.
B&M cardrooms generally charge a higher rake than online poker sites do.

The online rake is fairly reasonable, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Compared to B&M costs though, online makes much more money per $1 of rake. B&M has massive property tax, payroll and upkeep. Online spends less in each category. B&M have to have a dealer waiting or they cannot open a new table, online can open tables in an instant. When a table closes, B&M are still paying a dealer to stand around, until the floor kicks them loose, online has no such consideration. Granted, this is only a guess, but I think that B&M poker rooms are barely break even for the casinos and the only reason they have them is the polularity brings patrons in the doors that might play some of the games the casino makes more money at. Online Poker, without the expenses of B&M has a much larger profit margin and much greater efficiency.

Vern

Standard Disclaimer, I am by no means an expert at any of this.

The Truth · #14 03-12-2005, 04:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, the rake charged by the main sites out today is outrageous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never understood this line of thinking.
B&M cardrooms generally charge a higher rake than online poker sites do.

The online rake is fairly reasonable, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

So 100k a year to play on party is a fair charge?
They charge a crazy sum of money, so do B&M games.
However, it is more noticable online, and it costs less for the house to run online. Their yearly cost is tiny. It is simple economics. They charge whatever the suckers (us) are willing to pay. Vern put it very well why it is still the way it is, and why it hasn't changed yet. Somebody will eventually put up enough money for start up, and they will be willing to make a mere 1 million a year instead of the 50 million a year party is asking.

Silybum · #15 03-12-2005, 04:31 PM

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Eventually the consumer (us) will wise up and realize that the price we are paying for the service is way out of line with what we should be paying. My income should be another 8k a month. I dont get it because I am paying party 8000 dollars every month to let me use their site. That is 96k a year I am giving them. Here you go party. Hope you enjoy it.

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Hmmm, seems like a good time for a RAKE FREE SITE

AngryCola · #16 03-12-2005, 04:31 PM

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Online Poker, without the expenses of B&M has a much larger profit margin and much greater efficiency.

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You make a solid point here.

But what about all the extra expenses for the B&M player? Tokes for the dealer, gas, etc.

I won't pretend that I know how all the math would work out, but it's important to remember that both online sites and their players save more expense money than their B&M counterparts.

The Truth · #17 03-12-2005, 04:33 PM

Vern you seem to know what your talking about pretty good. I agree with most everything you said, however, the poker rooms to make tons of money. I worked for AMvets that ran a poker game, tons of money, its not break even, they could afford to charge lots less, but none the less its not nearly as outrageous as online rake.

They are making something like 135$ per hour per table

ilikeaces · #18 03-12-2005, 04:34 PM

If party starts banning rake at its skins I am not going to play on PP or any of its sites. I generate absurd amounts of rake and am going to put my money where my mouth is on this one.

Wyers · #19 03-12-2005, 04:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, the rake charged by the main sites out today is outrageous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never understood this line of thinking.
B&M cardrooms generally charge a higher rake than online poker sites do.

The online rake is fairly reasonable, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree with Angry here. Would I PREFER to pay less rake? Of course.

However...

Paying online rake is still preferable to getting in my car, driving to the casino, playing one table at a time, tipping dealers.. blah blah blah.

If a reputable rake free site was established, I'd be the first there, along with all other 2+2ers. Ain't gonna happen though. Fish don't understand the concept of rake.

"You only pay rake if you win the pot, right?"

The fish will continue to swim at Party - at any rakefree site we would only be playing each other.

My rakeback deal is with Empire, and hopefully this will not be impacted. However, if it is, I'm not certain it would influence me to register an account with a rake free site.

Not yet...

Bellagibro · #20 03-12-2005, 04:39 PM

I was first outraged at Party when they first introduced the extra .50 cent rake at the 1.50 at 2.50 levels back in Dec '03. I went over to Paradise, UB and Stars for awhile but realized the action was still over at Party.

Then in summer '04 I got into rakeback which to me nulified the extra .50 they were taking. Now if the end is near for rakeback, would I still play at Party? Yes but I would play alot less and be more game selective. It's a real shame that the fish don't give a crap about how much the rake is.