To ALL players and owners in New York City - PLEASE READ - Page 2

#11 10-20-2005, 04:24 PM

I discussed a different idea with a few players recently. You essentially develop a collective. No time is taken, no rake, no tourney fees. Every member is a part owner and contributes to a seperate foundation that handles rent on the location, supply costs, and all other overhead.

In this way no one is "profitting from gambling" as set out by the NYS penal code and the room would be totally legal. There would be harassment I'm sure, but there is no owner and no profit thereby no law broken.

steamboatin · #12 10-20-2005, 04:24 PM

You need to take the japanese approach completely. They play for prizes. Some of the prizes available are collectable coins, then they walk down the street and sell their collectable coins.

#13 10-20-2005, 04:38 PM

Instead of a "Location A and C" how about transferring through neteller? Or is their person to person transfer fee too high? Of course, any fees related could be deemed insurance for the cops not being able to confiscate your bankroll.

Ironman · #14 10-20-2005, 04:41 PM

Of course you guys are assuming that the poker room owners want to have a different system in place.

The poker room owner is making money.

Is it a hassle? You bet.

Is it still profitable for him to run the club? I would think so, otherwise they wouldn't reopen.

From a poker room operator/owner standpoint..."it's not necessarily broken"...so they aren't interested in fixing it.

Dave

StevieG · #15 10-20-2005, 04:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I discussed a different idea with a few players recently. You essentially develop a collective...In this way no one is "profitting from gambling" as set out by the NYS penal code and the room would be totally legal.

[/ QUOTE ]

The same law that makes profiting from gambling activity illegal also makes "advancing gambling activity" illegal.

The DA could argue that just by providing cards, chips, and a place to play that you are in violation of the law, profit or not.

#16 10-20-2005, 05:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The same law that makes profiting from gambling activity illegal also makes "advancing gambling activity" illegal.

The DA could argue that just by providing cards, chips, and a place to play that you are in violation of the law, profit or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm...a point. But in this instance they would have to arrest and try 100 or more people who are members of the collective since there is no individual owner or promoter.

If it could be done with money on deposit, there would be no money to confiscate. And if it isn't clear to anyone that this is a big part of these raids look again, they want cash. They timed the BW raid to coincide with the eve of a big buy-in tourney...not a coincidence. They also always raid on the busiest night and at the busiest times. They love to see "over $50,000 seized" "over $100,000 seized".

So the DA would be faced with issuing a warrant and carrying out a raid where no cash is confiscated. Then having everyone present step up as an "owner". They would need to arrest the 50 to 100 people present and then run them all through the system. All the evidence they could provide to a judge and or jury would be playing cards and chips. I can imagine the DA saying "well...no there wasn't any actual cash on the premises". I'm not sure they would want to deal with this or the possible ramifications (ie: if they lose they essentially publicly legalize this type of establishment).

#17 10-20-2005, 05:15 PM

Actually if you read the NY penal code. No person actually need profit from the operation. A person is guilty of promoting gambling if they profit from OR ADVANCE gambling activity. This pretty much would make the organizers of the game criminally liable evene if not taking a rake or collection. Also if your not self dealt your dealers aren't going to be working for free are they . . . they will be profiting.

#18 10-20-2005, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm...a point. But in this instance they would have to arrest and try 100 or more people who are members of the collective since there is no individual owner or promoter.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no legal requirement that says you have to arrest and convict everyone who has committed a crime in order to convict anyone who committed the crime.

You now want to take a system where they arre not arresting the players and convert it to a system where they are arresting the players . . . good idea

Luv2DriveTT · #19 10-20-2005, 06:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I discussed a different idea with a few players recently. You essentially develop a collective. No time is taken, no rake, no tourney fees. Every member is a part owner and contributes to a seperate foundation that handles rent on the location, supply costs, and all other overhead.

In this way no one is "profitting from gambling" as set out by the NYS penal code and the room would be totally legal. There would be harassment I'm sure, but there is no owner and no profit thereby no law broken.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to do this, but I have to rain on your parade because I already proposed this to a lawyer recently. Use this as an analogy; the organizer of a home game is free and clear of the law if he loses money in the game. Once he profits from the game, he has broken the law. Profiting includes winning a pot, it is not restricted to time charge or rake.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

bdk3clash · #20 10-20-2005, 06:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Once he profits from the game, he has broken the law. Profiting includes winning a pot, it is not restricted to time charge or rake.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're golden!