Waiting till the river to raise

[BoxLiquid]

raise pre-flop. I saw a thread by Ed Miller that says it's the correct play with ATs when theres this many players in the hand.

That flop doesn't look good. I would do everything I can to knock out as many players. Any king or jack can mean trouble + theres flush draw on the board..

2 pair on this board is not strong enough to trap players to the river.

I would raise the turn. Make the draws pay. If 3-betted. just call. If someone actually has a straight you still have outs. Probably only 3.

[Nick C]

Since you're not in a position to protect your hand (unless you get 3-bet, which could indicate you're drawing), I think just calling the flop is all right. I'd probably raise, but I'm not really sure if it's better to pop the flop or wait and raise on a decent turn card.

Preflop, I really think you should raise. ATs on the Button is a strong hand after three limpers.

[bobhalford]

I personally would not take this line with this hand. Preflop I would raise, and that would change a lot about what happens post-flop. Since you limped, I like a flop raise here. This will test out the strength of BB's hand and BB might 3-bet with AJ/AK forcing the other 2 callers to call 2 cold. Between those two opponents, you might have a quarter of the deck or more out against you, so I think raise to protect your hand. The wait until the river strategy is good if you want to minimize your losses when you are up against a set or better two pair. You also make money by jamming the flop and taking control of the hand. What if an A or T hit, as well as a straight card or flush card? Then you will get nice action in a big pot. They way you play it is passive, and you really don't have much of an idea what villain has. Also, you forfeit the opportunity to charge the other two players the money they owe you for trying to complete a draw.

I guess the more I write about it, the more I feel that your line here is bad on a fundamental level. One thing it does do is give an impression to your opponents about the way that you play. You can then mix up your play later. It's a strange enough play that people will remember it.

[crazygoose]

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i would just be pumping the pot up for flush draws, and i wouldnt be able to face anyone with 2 bets except the Sb on the flop.

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Everyone would be paying two SB to see the next card. There are about 15 cards you really dont want to see on that turn. Raise when you are ahead. Oh yea, raise preflop.

[pokernicus]

I think you can make an argument either way about whether to raise or just call on the flop. On the turn, you should almost definitely raise if a non-scare card falls.

I personally lean more towards a flop raise since I don't like to give cheap cards away on a coordinated board.

Assuming you have the best hand on the flop and have the best chance to win the hand by the end (which seems quite likely), every bet or raise you make that someone calls theoretically makes you money.

Since this pot is big enough the reasonable draws will still have the right odds to call even if they are facing two big bets cold on the turn. We can safely assume that anyone with a reasonable draw will stay until the river.

My thinking is that you might as well charge them as much as possible to see every card. I think that by not doing so, you're missing out on some good money extracting opportunities.

You definately need to raise preflop with this hand at a live 3/6 game. You will have alot of equity most of the time.

But approaching this hand from flop and on, I think you were correct in just calling flop. If you are ahead you are dodging a crap load of cards. You have a small edge here but are not in position to protect the pot. If a safe card comes on turn(which it did) your edge will be much bigger and now you definately need to raise. You will be behind a small percentage of the time, but otherwise you have equity and need to be building the pot. Never wait for river to raise a draw heavy board. Your opponents will either punish you with their flush and straights, or they will just fold. Both scenarios lose you money.