Bellagio 5diamond Hand

[colson10]

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I like how you played it. There are so many things that can go wrong if you raise with the action in front of you that I hate building a big pot. If Joe picks a spot where 3 people have shown interest to run a play then the pot is his.

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What do you think about running a play here if you're in Awada's spot? I know this depends on too many factors for you to really answer, but I wish I was good enough to do this.

I feel like every time I've tried to run a play in the last handfull of big live tournaments I've played, I've failed. After playing a few of the 5diamond events, tight and aggressive seemed to be the way to play. It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately but am feeling very unsure about. It always depends on your table, but every table I had in all those events was so loose aggressive that if I caught cards or made some pairs I'd get some chips. Everytime I got out of line, I got caught. But maybe I'm just not picking my spots well enough.

There was a hand from the 5K event where EP opened for 200, LP called, and I just called in the BB with JJ (6K stack). Flop is 722, EP leads small for like 300, LP makes it 800, I make it 2100 and they both fold. I think I played the hand fine, but I wish I was good enough to make that move with air.

Sirio and I talked about TAG vs LAG in these tournaments and he seemed to agree that TAG generally works better these days, with all the LAGs out there. but I'm still unsure about it all.

[MLG]

There are so many things that can go wrong for awada its scary in that spot that the concept of it boggles my mind. Dags needs to not have a monster, and the raiser cant have AA/KK/QQ/JJ because he is never folding, and you have to have something marginal, and not something slowplayed. Yeah he's in good position, but man I don't know. Then again, the pot is big and he's risking comparatively little to win it. I cant run those moves live yet, and i think in the current climate (in any climate really) there's not much place for them. Guys dont know how to play deepstacks so the money is really in trapping them I think.

[iMsoLucky0]

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There are so many things that can go wrong for awada its scary in that spot that the concept of it boggles my mind. Dags needs to not have a monster, and the raiser cant have AA/KK/QQ/JJ because he is never folding, and you have to have something marginal, and not something slowplayed. Yeah he's in good position, but man I don't know. Then again, the pot is big and he's risking comparatively little to win it. I cant run those moves live yet, and i think in the current climate (in any climate really) there's not much place for them. Guys dont know how to play deepstacks so the money is really in trapping them I think.

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This has a concept I have been exploring in my mind and through discussions lately. So many of my tables lately in these big buyin live events have been insanely LAGGY. The only way I've been able to get chips at all is playing conservatively and getting value out of my winning hands. Of course, the table dynamics matter so much and I'm looking at a small sample size here, but it can't be discounted that there are a ton of LAGs out there now that dont fold.

I mean, I've had so many hands where MP will open to 5x the BB, the SB will reraise to 15x the BB, MP will just call. Flop will come like K83 and there is some action, etc. and then they turn over their cards and they've got A3 and KT?!? I mean, some of these players are just crazy and I really think it's hard to do anything but just wait for hands to get their chips, or wait for them to bust themselves.

If awada was making a move here, that's just amazing. I do often wonder if these guys are actually making plays in these spots or if they have hands. That's what makes them so good. Even us, as good players, can't figure them out. I mean, I would like to say that they always have it in spots like these, but there's no way for us to know.

Maybe Joe will stumble on this thread and give us some input.

[MrLob]

For what its worth I play in these type events sometimes and agree totally with MLG and LuckyO. I think this is a very tough spot for Awada to be making a move, and if he is, he is taking such an a big risk that he probably deserves the reward of the pot. I think your preflop call set you up for this type of action, so although I think the call was fine, you now need to follow through with a fold to this type of action. A preflop raise had some danger as well, but I think it was preforable in comparison to inviting JDags and Awada into the pot. I think TAG is better at this spot in the tourney and a fold is tough but waranted.

[LearnedfromTV]

*Disclaimer that this above my buyin level.*

I would lean toward reraising preflop, because your call heads you into a multiway pot most of the time, assuming the good players at the table read the raiser like you do (and it sounds like they would).

You ask if you should have raised the flop the first time - maybe, but I think Awada can still pretty easily read you for the mid+ pair you have and come over the top anyway without a 6. As the first caller you're the one least likely to have a 6, making it easier for someone else to represent one to you, especially once you've shown flop strength (which is often a means of sniffing for greater strength, as you imply).

The thing that strikes me about this hand is that the raiser only called the flop bet. So even though he's loose, he probably on the way to folding his overcards to a raise, and so what looks like a bad spot to bluff for Awada is actually a pretty good one - it's a pseudo protected-pot plus anyone who calls is going to be on the defensive, and it doesn't cost him much relative to the pot.

If you call and check the turn, you are probably facing a sizeable bet with a wide range that becomes tougher to play against if an overcard hits. If you reraise with the intention of not putting any more in the pot, he can call and take it away from you a lot of the time, because he's still pretty sure you don't have a 6 and he has position. If you reraise with the intention of playing for your stack, you lose your stack when he has a 6 and don't get much more when he doesn't.

I think I fold because I can't find a good way to continue, even though I would like to.

[betgo]

What's going on with a 5-way raised pot? Is this a $20 tournament on Party?

[MLG]

lol, when was the last time you played with a 300 BB stack? It allows for profitably playing a lot more hands if you're good, and thinking you can profitable play a lot more hands if you arent.

[betgo]

If Awada has a 6 or 44, why not flat call? If he has QQ-AA, why didn't he reraise preflop?

[woodguy]

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If Awada has a 6 or 44, why not flat call?

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Underfulls and trips are not great hands to slow play in multiway pots.

Also, if you think you have best hand, its a good time to build the pot, hopefully someone's AA or KK is stuck to their hand and they can't let go.

Regards,
Woodguy