So I raised with my 77 and then

[brettbrettr]

Why are you calling this flop bet?

[d10]

The board is already paired. You don't need to worry about the 7c coming out and losing to a flush.

[TXTiger]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you calling this flop bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you read my other posts?

[Jake (The Snake)]

I don't mean to answer for chesspain, but I think his point is that if you are overlooking backdoor flushes then that is a leak. You should be able to recall whether you had that possibility on the flop.

1.5 extra outs (probably more like 1 out here) is not something you want to be routinely overlooking.

As for this specific hand... no, I don't think it would tilt the decision.

[damaniac]

I think chesspain was mentioning it not so much to say that he should call with it, but that it would be relevant information if the decision were close. Also, other reasons to call with the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (though not here) would be so if we hit our set on the turn, someone else doesn't make a flush. Instead of having like 1.5 outs, we might have 2 or 2.5, which in this case doesn't matter, but might swing a fold to a call in a bigger pot or less coordinated board.

[Derek132260]

Grunch.

What is the flop call about? Personally, I'm folding there. If UTG is loose pre-flop (but no reads telling you he's overly aggressive) and he bets into a preflop raiser with that flop...then I'm betting my pants that he's got K-rag or better. If you are going to continue (for any reason), you're raising that flop...calling and then waiting for the turn to raise is unintelligible to me.

-D

[Jake (The Snake)]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how I call a turn bet if another club falls hoping that my sevens are good or that a 7 high one card flush draw will be good.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to call a turn bet if another club comes. What makes you think that a flush would not win enough getting about 10-1 odds? There are only 5 cards that would give someone a higher flush, and with only two opponents it is very unlikely one of them would have it.

You raised the turn when a diamond came off so I don't understand why you would fold if a club came. Another club would be helping you, not hurting you.

[TXTiger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how I call a turn bet if another club falls hoping that my sevens are good or that a 7 high one card flush draw will be good.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to call a turn bet if another club comes. What makes you think that a flush would not win enough getting about 10-1 odds? There are only 5 cards that would give someone a higher flush, and with only two opponents it is very unlikely one of them would have it.

You raised the turn when a diamond came off so I don't understand why you would fold if a club came. Another club would be helping you, not hurting you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you get 10:1 from. Not even close. If I call the flop planning on raising the turn, then I have to have put utg on a draw on the flop. If a club falls I have to put him on a straight draw with no club or a king with no club to call the turn. I know I am behind to a king sometimes. The fact that the most likely draw just hit and I am only getting 5.5:1 makes this an easy fold. Since the turn was a blank and my hand beats all draws I raised.

The reasoning for calling the flop is that people bet flush draws here such a high percentage of the time. The percentage has to be high for my flop call to be correct because when I am behind to a king I am in bad shape. And I will still lose 1/3 of the time to the flush draw.

I agree with those that say fold the flop. I just don't think it's cut and dried. A better read would be helpful since it would be an easy fold against a straightforwrd player who will not bet a draw often. There are 7 sb in the pot when it comes to me on the flop. I either have to fold there or put opp on a draw and act accordingly. It's likely I will be paying 5 sb to get to showdown. If I simplify things and take big blind out, I will be paying 5sb to win 12sb. It doesn't look like the return is there. I have the best hand sometimes, but likely not often enough. I probably let the fact that I have seen such a high number of draws bet out against me lately affect my play here. I do fold in this spot often, I guess I just felt like making a stand in this hand.

If I do play on it does seem correct to call the flop but raise the turn blank. This loses less when a bad turn card comes. Wins more if utg has a draw. Has a small chance of getting a better hand to fold.

[TXTiger]

[ QUOTE ]
calling and then waiting for the turn to raise is unintelligible to me.

-D

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the reasoning would not be difficult to see, so I didn't include it my earlier posts. The only good reason I see for raising the flop is to get bb out. I'm either giving him 8:1 or 4.5:1.

[jskills]

UTG is awful for limping with that hand, but if I'm in your shoes, I'm not even sure I call the flop bet, much less raise the turn ...