Patented TWP over-aggro donkitude?

[iNsChris]

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Looks way overplayed to me.

I call the flop raise, and check/call to showdown.

I think anybody that advocate folding at any point in this hand is being very weak.

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[TheWorstPlayer]

I'm very curious what people put as his hand range here. I think that it is {dd, 98, A2, A7, AA-77, 22, TA-T2, J9, 68(?)} maybe there are a few more. Obviously some of these are more likely than others. Does anyone think that I have included hands which are obviously not in his hand range? Does anyone think I have left out any that are in his hands range? Does anyone think that 3-betting is not good against the hand range as I have defined it? How does the presence of the MP player affect things? Thanks for the help.

[KingOtter]

What's TWP mean?

I understand betting top pair against a really bad player, but you don't have much else to this hand. I think I want a better hand to take him to task.

KO

[TheWorstPlayer]

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What's TWP mean?

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TheWorstPlayer. Sorry. It's just that I have been accused of being a maniac on here a few times before. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[KingOtter]

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I'm very curious what people put as his hand range here. I think that it is {dd, 98, A2, A7, AA-77, 22, TA-T2, J9, 68(?)} maybe there are a few more. Obviously some of these are more likely than others. Does anyone think that I have included hands which are obviously not in his hand range? Does anyone think I have left out any that are in his hands range? Does anyone think that 3-betting is not good against the hand range as I have defined it? How does the presence of the MP player affect things? Thanks for the help.

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This is hard, because we don't really have a read on him, and his donkitude. We have his stats, and he appears aggro, but we don't know when he was aggro... did he have something in his hand? Does he jam top-pair consistently? Does he slowplay big hands pre-flop? Does he know where the fold/call buttons are (I played against a LAA very recently where he raised every bet, and bet every time when checked to... every time... if this was HIM, I'd 3-bet)?

His flop raise seems to me to say 'I beat top-pair' ... or at the least 'My kicker beats your kicker'. I let him convince me and call down from there, or quite possibly drop the turn unimproved.

I don't think we have enough of a feeling for him in order to understand your play.

KO

[TheWorstPlayer]

That's fair. My general point, though, is that an unknown will raise a fairly wide range of hands on the flop and that against that range 3betting TP is good. Then when he caps, calling down is good. Do people disagree?

[bozlax]

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I think that 3-betting the turn against an unknown with TP (even with no kicker) is not that bad, but I'm willing to be corrected.

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On the turn you had second pair. I know, you meant the flop.

So, on the flop. You've got a weak top pair, no kicker, and you're out of position against TWO PLAYERS, only one of whom you think will be crazygonuts with nothing. So, you need to isolate. So, go for the C/R, assuming the civilian will check behind you and Mr. Lag will bet. When you've got Villan isolated, call down UI.

That's the play I'd use if I were 100% convinced of a read on Villan, that he would be equally likely to bet and raise with 72o, AKs or AA...and I was smoking dope. You realize that he beats you with a Good Buddy, right? I think I check this flop and chuck it when he bets. I certainly check-n-chuck UI on the turn.

As for a hand range for your Villan, how can you put him on any range? Your own read is that he plays anything, and that's why we're talking about this; you haven't provided us with any further information as to how he plays postflop.

"[His raises] on the flop led me to believe that he had at least two cards."

[fluxrad]

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I would have released it on the flop.

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Three handed on the flop, you're folding top pair to a raise?

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With a 3 kicker? Yes. I'm folding it. Any ten beats you, overcards have a clean 6 outs, and the pot is tiny. I'd let it go.

Then again, I suck at poker [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[TheWorstPlayer]

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On the turn you had second pair. I know, you meant the flop.


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Yeah, I meant flop, sorry.

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So, on the flop. You've got a weak top pair, no kicker, and you're out of position against TWO PLAYERS, only one of whom you think will be crazygonuts with nothing. So, you need to isolate. So, go for the C/R, assuming the civilian will check behind you and Mr. Lag will bet. When you've got Villan isolated, call down UI.

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See, I don't really think he is LAG. I more think he is unknown/bad/loose-ish/maybe aggro. But I thought that MP was going to raise a hand that beats me so I figured him for a mid pair/bottom pair/an overcard/a draw. Then when the bad guy raises I figured I had too much hand to fold and if I called then MP would be getting a good price on a call so I raised. When bad player capped, that slowed me down so I just called down.

[DeathDonkey]

I play it the same except I think you may be able to fold on the river. All you can beat is diamonds.

-DeathDonkey