3-5 NL Live Hand

[PokerFink]

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What range can I put the villain on after he flat-calls the turn and raises the river?

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78 or a very complex bluff against your blocking bet. I doubt he's limping 37.

The more I think about this, since villian is a "thinking" player you have to fold. The way you played it screams that you have a three, villian can't possibly put you on spades with a three so there is no reason for him to raise on the turn with 78.

If villian is good enough to know that you have exactly a three and he has just a three as well, so he raises knowing he is freerolling, then he's just a better player than both of us and you should stay away from him.

I just can't call this. Sucks.

[TheWorstPlayer]

What are you thinking when you raise the turn? Whatever it was, I don't like it. You have a small pot hand and a draw to a big pot hand that you are getting for cheap. Take the draw, manage the pot. I absolutely hate that raise.

[boondockst]

Just call the $5 on the turn with a straight and OESFD? What's wrong with taking down $30 right there and defining my hand? If a spade hits on the river and THEN i wake up, my action will be dead and especially if i hit the 2 of spades for the straight flush, as it would pair the board.

[TheWorstPlayer]

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What's wrong with taking down $30 right there

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Nothing. So glad that worked out for you.
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and defining my hand?

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Why would you want to do that? If you don't raise, maybe you can get a 'value bet' off a worse hand. Once you raise, no way anyone is putting in more money without a better hand or better draw.
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If a spade hits on the river and THEN i wake up, my action will be dead and especially if i hit the 2 of spades for the straight flush, as it would pair the board.

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Why cares? You should worry more about getting blown off your draw now by the nuts and controlling the pot. You will also benefit from not knocking people out who are drawing very slim like 2 pair.

[boondockst]

So what do you say I should do on the turn? Smoothcall the $5??? This was one of like 2 hands I can remember in hours where someone bet the minimum on the turn....How do I play if someone else raises? Smooth-call that? Fold my OESFD? If I smooth-call a raise, check/call the river to let two pair bluff? Please state your line, I am very curious.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Yes, I'm just calling all bets on the turn. I do NOT want to build a big pot in this spot. And I'm probably calling all bets on the river, too, no matter what falls. If a spade falls, I may raise, depending on the action.

[boondockst]

Interesting, TWP, I respect you and know you post here and MHNL yet i crossposted there to contrast the replies and the consensus there was to play postflop as I did and easily call the river....Does the SSNL online mentality inspire you to so viciously bash my line? (No offense taken)

[TheWorstPlayer]

Perhaps partially. I haven't played in the game you describe, and I don't know how your opponents will play. But I'm guessing that the Mid/High guys are used to playing with people who are more aggressive than the opponents in this hand and will have wider hand ranges. I still don't see what they would hope to accomplish really by raising the turn, though.

i like those kind of hands also but i dont usually commit myself in multiway pots like that with no bets on the flop, which was your first dramatic mistake. your turn bet was almost as bad, i guess i am wondering why you over bet the pot by so much?? was the table really poor and everyone was a bunch of calling stations, becuase with that many callers it seems kinda out of control, and if that is how the table was playing i have noclue what you are doing in the hand with a 34, thats just not a winning strategy at a loose table. if your check on the flop was bad your turn bet was even worst then that, but where i almost fell out of my chair was on the river when you bet. im not sure what you were thinking, im not sure if you were. there is no reason for you to bet in that situation, i can see a check call to a reasonable bet, but i cant see check calling a big bet in this situation on the river. most of the money is in the hands of the all in on the SB who could have very well be pushing two pair or a flush draw, but its not that unlikely he has a 89 considering he had seen the hand for free up to that point. i guess i think that you had pot stuck yourself by now on the river, at best i think your looking at a chop pot. havent read any of the posts, like to see how it turned out for you, hope you won.

[boondockst]

to noclue2, not trying to be a jerk, but have you played live?

It's quite different from PPNL25 in ways I can't quite explain to you. There's a lot of check-raising and min-raising. Example


I have Q9s on the Button (or relative) and limp with BB and a MP also in.

Flop is 10 8 x rainbow. BB checks, MP who frequently stabs bets out $10, I call the $10 and so does the BB.

River is a beautiful Jack. BB checks, MP checks, I bet $25, BB check-min-raises to $50, I reraise to $150, and he pushes for a total of $235. He has JTo for two pair and the river is a brick for him. Horrid play in my opinion, worse than some that I see on party at times. when your check-raise gets 3-bet you still push with two pair?

Given the quality of players (not denying odds to drawing hands, position considerations, etc.) I had no problem limping with 34s in this situation as most players were very predictable postflop.

I don't see how you wouldn't bet SOMETHING on this river. You're begging for another player to move in with a 3 or even less.