Ed Miller "Going Pro" article

[Izenra]

here are the expense of a canadian 18 years old(me) :

0 $for rent and utilities ( If I live alone, 400)

0 $ car payment(no car)

0$ for gasoline(^)

0$ for car insurance(^)

0$ for health insurance

0$ for student loan payments

50$ for food (500 if I live alone)

$50 for Internet access

0 for phone

150 for clothes and grooming expenses

1100$ if I live alone, 250$ if I live with parents!

Nice article Ed Miller.

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the bottom line. Multitabling, you can get 300-600 hands per hour in. Live you get 30-40 hands per hour. While I agree with you that live play features many "fringe benefits"... and some not-so-fringe ones... over online play, you simply can't make up for the 8x or more hands per hour you get online. You can't even come close.

You can multitable as low as $3-$6 with a $5,000 bankroll (plus personal savings) for a healthy living. If you want to make an equivalent living playing live, we're talking at least $15-$30 and more like $20-$40 with a $20,000 bankroll or more.

And if you can beat that live $20-$40 game for $40/hour for your decent living, you can use that same time and bankroll and multitable Party $15-$30 or $10-$20 6max and make $200/hour.

I played/play live, not because it's more profitable, but because it's more fun for me. If I played poker primarily for the cash, I'd play online, and it isn't close. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for expanding. If I had to choose right now without trying both fulltime myself (one at a time!), I'd go with online. But for some players (me?), I bet it's closer than you think.

For some players, playing 300-600 hands/hour even decently is a tall order. I'm single-tabling most of the time, and after 17,000 tracked hands online (since I bought PokerTracker), the online average is very close to 55 hands/hour/table. So 300-600 hands/hour is about 5-10 tables at the same time.

Furthermore, my experience is that playing just one table at the $2/4 level online is tougher than playing the $20/40 at Commerce. So I can hardly comprehend playing PartyPoker $10/20 6max at 5-10 tables at once! You've got to have some serious skills for that! And I'll admit it: I don't have those multitabling skills at this point.

Plus, you get all-you-can-eat free food at the Commerce when you play $15/30 or higher (and it ain't bad food at all!), and thus some of your overhead is cut down.

That said, I'm getting into bonus-whoring and rake-returning lately, and I'm already making a decent profit playing online, so it may end up where I make the most money.

Thanks for the article, and I look forward to the follow-ups.

-ptmusic

[Ed Miller]

Also note that being in the LA area, you have perhaps the juiciest live mid-limit environment in the world. In most other areas of the country (or world, for that matter), the choice between online and live, profitwise, is even more clear than it is in LA.

[mcphail7]

Besides the ethical dilemma of "cheating" why aren't there more computer programs playing at the micro limit tables. If you say a computer couldn't win, you are wrong, a tiny bit of discipline could easily beat people at these tiny limits. Are there programs out now doing this?

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
Also note that being in the LA area, you have perhaps the juiciest live mid-limit environment in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, buddy!!! Is Vegas really tougher than LA at the mid-limits (20/40ish)? Because the last time I was there, I was still playing 4/8, and man, that was a cakewalk. Maybe the deck was just smacking me in the face all weekend, but I did not want to leave the Sahara!

-ptmusic

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also note that being in the LA area, you have perhaps the juiciest live mid-limit environment in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, buddy!!! Is Vegas really tougher than LA at the mid-limits (20/40ish)? Because the last time I was there, I was still playing 4/8, and man, that was a cakewalk. Maybe the deck was just smacking me in the face all weekend, but I did not want to leave the Sahara!

-ptmusic

[/ QUOTE ]

The $20-$40 games in Vegas are soft too, but I'd say the LA games are definitely better, and furthermore, once you hit $40-$80 and up LA really gets signficantly better.

[Jim C]

[ QUOTE ]
Multitabling, you can get 300-600 hands per hour in. Live

[/ QUOTE ]

600 an hour??!!!!

Holy crap! I struggle to keep a good solid game at 5/10 at 400 hands an hour and I prop for a living.

I won't say it can't be done, but myself, anything over 4 tables when multitabling, my quality of play severely decreases especially when doing 8 hour shifts.

Oh.. and about quality of play. My observations is that the quality of players have decreased at the lower levels of both online and live play. However live games are much softer than online games, and that online play is more profitable for the reasons already mentioned.

And if you do turn pro, I think its critical to become a prop.

[ptmusic]

How do you become a prop? Are you talking about bonuses/rake returns, or some other type of work-for-hire setup directly with the poker site?

-ptmusic

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
The $20-$40 games in Vegas are soft too, but I'd say the LA games are definitely better, and furthermore, once you hit $40-$80 and up LA really gets signficantly better.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does "better" mean here? Is LA more or less profitable than vegas at 40/80 and above? i.e. does better mean better games or better players at 40/80+?

[tolbiny]

"600 an hour??!!!!

Holy crap! I struggle to keep a good solid game at 5/10 at 400 hands an hour and I prop for a living.

I won't say it can't be done, but myself, anything over 4 tables when multitabling, my quality of play severely decreases especially when doing 8 hour shifts.

Oh.. and about quality of play. My observations is that the quality of players have decreased at the lower levels of both online and live play. However live games are much softer than online games, and that online play is more profitable for the reasons already mentioned.

And if you do turn pro, I think its critical to become a prop."

You are a lunatic if you are playing 8 hours a day. If you are forced to through your prop aggreement then i would just quit it. 4-6 tabling 5-10 shorthanded is a fairly easy way of putting in 4-600 hands an hour- but if i had to do it 8 hours a day i would jsut get a regular job again. The beauty of poker is i can play 2-4 hours a day and make a decent living.