Good Question For Catholics and Others

[txag007]

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The point of Jesus' teaching is that one should accept the testimony of credible witnesses as well as the teachings of God and His prophets. And it is perfectly acceptable and necessary to apply one's reason to those teachings to derive their full logical meaning, although again many protestants seem to have a problem with that.

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In Acts you will find that everytime Paul arrived in a new town, he immediately went to the synagogue and reasoned with them through the scriptures concerning the truth of Jesus Christ. I find it interesting that the Bible uses that word specifically: reasoned. There shouldn't be any doubt that God expects us to use our minds to arrive at a decision concerning the truth of His word.

[imported_luckyme]

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The point of Jesus' teaching is that ...

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Such statements are credible only if the person never says " We cannot claim to know gods motives/reasons ... ".

Then again, if they do say that, how can they claim to know X is for certain. Seems a basic problem with theism, and, yes, I realize theists simply claim both positions and move on.

luckyme,
My mind would change if it thinks I'm wrong.

[BluffTHIS!]

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The point of Jesus' teaching is that ...

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Such statements are credible only if the person never says " We cannot claim to know gods motives/reasons ... ".


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I agree if you mean that we cannot by reason alone know God's motivations. But we can claim to know such if He has told us in His divine revelation.

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Would you give your child a gift and then punish her because she used your gift?

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The analogy isn't quite right. It's more like giving a child a swiss army knife which they then use to kill people.

Plus, God didn't give us the gift of reason. Humans got reason by disobeying God and eating from the forbidden tree.

[hmkpoker]

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Plus, God didn't give us the gift of reason. Humans got reason by disobeying God and eating from the forbidden tree.

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If we didn't have a reasoning ability, then how is it our fault that we ate the fruit after being given the temptation by the serpent? What good is free will without reason?

[Lestat]

<font color="blue"> The analogy isn't quite right. It's more like giving a child a swiss army knife which they then use to kill people. </font>

I knew someone would bring this up. Still, if you give a kid who's too young a chemistry set. You shouldn't be surprised if someone gets hurt.

<font color="blue"> Plus, God didn't give us the gift of reason. Humans got reason by disobeying God and eating from the forbidden tree. </font>

Do you REALLY believe this? Then how did Eve <u>reason</u> with Adam and get him to eat from the forbidden tree?

[BluffTHIS!]

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<font color="blue"> Plus, God didn't give us the gift of reason. Humans got reason by disobeying God and eating from the forbidden tree. </font>

Do you REALLY believe this? Then how did Eve <u>reason</u> with Adam and get him to eat from the forbidden tree?

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Nice work. Plus he can't say Adam was just dazzled by her boobs cause he didn't know he was naked until he ate of the fruit.

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I knew someone would bring this up.

[/ QUOTE ] That generally happens when you give an incorrect analogy.

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Do you REALLY believe this? Then how did Eve <u>reason</u> with Adam and get him to eat from the forbidden tree?

[/ QUOTE ] I guess you don't work in sales. Reason has very little to do with persuasion. If you asked a 5 year old kid to please not do something, and they went ahead and did it behind your back, you'd still be mad or disappointed and you'd probably punish them, even though they can't reason very well.

BTW I'm an atheist. Just pointing out the obvious flaws in your commentary of the mainstream Christian account of human reason.

(For BluffThis - some Catholic cults have recently gone against 1700 years of history and changed their core beliefs for convenience ("um, oops, we got it wrong, Sorry to all the people we killed, maimed and oppressed. We got it right now though - trust us"). I don't see them as being 'mainstream' or even internally consistent. You need the apple to get to Jesus in any meaningful way. Dance baby, dance.)

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<font color="blue"> The analogy isn't quite right. It's more like giving a child a swiss army knife which they then use to kill people. </font>

I knew someone would bring this up. Still, if you give a kid who's too young a chemistry set. You shouldn't be surprised if someone gets hurt.

<font color="blue"> Plus, God didn't give us the gift of reason. Humans got reason by disobeying God and eating from the forbidden tree. </font>

Do you REALLY believe this? Then how did Eve <u>reason</u> with Adam and get him to eat from the forbidden tree?

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Real quick here, if Adam and Eve got the ability to reason from eating the fruit, then Eve would be persuading Adam after eating the fruit herself.

But I disagree with the "reason" explanation. Genesis states that the tree gave the "Knowledge of Good and Evil", and said nothing about reason. So eating the fruit gave Adam and Eve the knowledge of right and wrong, not reason.

[RJT]

An important item in this scenario is “the present Pope”. By this, I assume you mean it literally – Benedict XVI and not the present Pope at any point in time.

When I first heard that Joseph Ratzinger was the new Pope I was a bit concerned. I hadn’t really known much about him at the time. I knew he was the “gendarme”, i.e. the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, the enforcer of church doctrine. My impression from the little I knew was that he was too stringent. Then I read/heard more about him. He is highly regarded as an intellectual as is actually very humble. Upon further reading I found that he is indeed the real deal. (Contrary to what Peter666 thinks.)

I would have to answer that I would be pretty sure. I would be almost positive that he didn’t do a trick; that it wasn’t a fraud. (So if that is the exact question then I go with A.) There could be another explanation, so I have to go with B. I also qualify it because I trust the Pope but (my) faith is in God, not man.